235 Comments
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RDB1172's avatar

What a great post and it shows humanity via connecting the stomach to the brain. I can only imagine what your grandfather would think of this administration. Thanks, Lucian.

Katha Dalton's avatar

That mess hall story is GREAT! I’ve worked in kitchens. THANKS for sharing.

Donald Nathan's avatar

So too did I when I was a student at Goddard College in Northern Vermont. All of us did. There was a head chef whose name was Lucille, proud old Vermonter that she was. Grown-up in Montpelier. Men, women, it didn’t make a difference. We all struggled. And the diet was outstanding. We all thrived. That’s what it takes.

MaryPat's avatar

My son went to culinary school in Montpelier!!! Fabulous place! They used restaurants and a bakery in town for training. Most delicious Christmas ever!Christmas

Barbara Namon's avatar

“I no longer listen to what people say, I just watch what they do. Behavior never lies.”

Winston Churchill.

Richard Alexander's avatar

And by now we ought to know that if a situation is bad, Trump or someone in his administration (or both) will make it worse. Today, for example, he said that the Lincoln's deployment was "not nearly long enough." And, of course, Hegseth said that conditions on board had been "completely misrepresented."

Timothy Cooper's avatar

If Trump hasn't angered every person in the military already, his "not long enough" deployment comment should definitely do it.

- Karen Cooper

Barbara (NJ)'s avatar

And yet, they still support him...<scratching my head>

Marlene Cohen Adair's avatar

Becuz disbelieving would mean they have been duped, conned and mocked. That fact is hard to stomach.

BG Pete Chiefari's avatar

One of my last exercises as a full colonel was a NATO exercise in Iceland in 1997. Codename Northern Viking. Reykjavík Iceland has a American naval base co-located with it at the airport. The Navy ran P3 Orion's during the Cold War to keep an eye on the Soviets North Sea Fleet. We were tasked with defending Iceland against the ground attack should the Russians ever come out and begin World War III. It was my first introduction and only introduction to how the Navy conducts operations. I was pleasantly surprised to realize that they emulate what happens on ships. Ships run 24 hours a day, so mess is 24 hour operation. 6 AM 12 AM 6 PM 12 PM. Everything you could want breakfast lunch dinner etc. was available every meal. My personal favorite was 12 PM, affectionately called mid rats! Depending what your duty day was you could stop at the officers club and discuss whatever was needed to be discussed for the operation, and go out to dinner at midnight! We were there during the spring of 1997, and were just below the Arctic circle so it was nearly the land of midnight sun. It was light 22 out of 24 hours and the last two were just kind of a dull gray.

The Navy took great pride in their meals and they were excellent! I have little doubt they still do. However the situation aboard the USS Abraham Lincoln is an abomination brought on by Total disregard for the sailors and Marines on that ship. Don't think for a second that the Officers are anything but livid about what's happening. But this isn't a movie like Mr. Roberts! They have been at sea 244 days without a port of call or port for maintenance call. That is a command failure, but not the commanders on that ship. They are doing what they are ordered to do. Just like everything else in this Trump administration, they have absolutely no regard for normal human concerns and Trump has said, as you will remember the military are suckers and losers!! Therefore he has no respect for what they have to do every day! My heart goes out to them! But I have nothing but utter disgust for Trump and Hegseth.

Sara Mcvicker's avatar

Of course Hegseth and Hung will try to find a scapegoat. But this mess goes back to the top and the total lack of logistical planning because Trump always imagines things will go the way he wants, everyone in the world will immediately do what he wants. So he thought this would be a slam dunk and be over very quickly. They couldn’t imagine the Irani would fight back. Trump has no knowledge of the area and its history and won’t listen to anyone who does. Almost anyone with 3 neurons could predict Iran would close the Strait. I understand the resupply point for the Navy was to be in Bahrain…. Am willing to bet good money that none of the self-important poobahs listened to anyone who could have done real contingency planning. Same for need to fortify bases and every other clusterf*** that our troops are being subjected to.

Charles Bryan's avatar

The port in Bahrain is no longer available for carrier strike force visits and resupply. This means that the carrier group must travel a long distance to the British base at Diego Garcia (well out of the range of Iranian and Houthi munitions).

Lou Kinsey 🏳️‍🌈🇺🇦🇺🇸's avatar

My uncle served a couple years on that base during the Vietnam war. He hated that cold- but being from far south Louisiana- that would be expected. My brother and I would fight as kids over who got to sleep on the sheepskin rug he brought home. It spent many years in his single bedroom apt in New Orleans, his last duty station before discharged from the service.

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

I have been to Greenland twice on Holland America cruises...I met a wonderful couple, he a retired LTC, she a former dependent schools teacher who met there...unless you are military, knowledge of Greenland comes thru travel...I have giggled non stop at Trump's threats over a NATO partner's land...when Trump goes Uber Stupid...the knowing world giggles...and cringes...as usual!

Barbara (NJ)'s avatar

Uber Stupid is his default setting...

BG Pete Chiefari's avatar

Excellent observation and comment, Barb!

Kate's avatar

Of course we expect nothing from Trump or Hegseth but they haven’t fired ALL the senior officers. Why are Admirals not resigning in protest at this treatment of their sailors? Is the carrier stranded inside the Gulf and can’t get through the Strait to go resupply? How is this not causing mass fury from the career ranks of middle to senior military? I don’t understand the complacency.

BG Pete Chiefari's avatar

Believe me they are anything but complacent! So let me ask you a question. What can you do and how can you influence a bad situation if you're response to it is to resign? Everyone would get yes you're a man of honor and you have a serious problem with what's happening, but wouldn't it be better to stay where you are and do your level best to rectify the situation?

I've seen time again where individuals think that the preferred response is to resign! I don't understand that! You can't help your men or improve their situation by putting yourself on the sidelines! Maybe I'm naïve but I don't think so!

Kate's avatar

You don’t think resigning en masse and showing up on cable news would get some attention? Americans are sleepwalking through this! There are plenty of 06 and O7 types with 25+ years in able to make this statement and still collect full pensions. Again, why the complacency?

Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

That's basically a publicity stunt. I don't have a military background, but I'd also call it a dereliction of duty. Lives are at stake and you think collecting full pensions is adequate compensation?

As to "sleepwalking" -- plenty of Americans were oblivious to how Reagan was gutting democracy to benefit corporations and the wealthy, but they were all in with the racism and misogyny. It's gotten worse since then -- I think of Trump II as the endgame. Only *now* are some people catching on. "Why the complacency?" is actually a good question, but it's late to be asking it for the first time. I keep coming back to the "frog in slowly heating water" story: it's taken decades for the water to come to a boil, but too many of us froggies weren't paying enough attention.

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

Well put...many of us brats and former service members follow this side show closely...THE HORROR!!!

Susanna J. Sturgis's avatar

Exactly. IMO you resign when the situation is so hopeless that there's nothing you can do to make it better. That's not the case here. Resigning would mean in effect washing one's hands of the situation and abandoning those sailors and Marines who don't have that option.

Carol-Ann Dearnaley's avatar

Most the senior officers in Germany, who still had integrity, were either quickly dismissed and imprisoned, or, if they were of too high born to immediately dispatch, to keep their loyalty, their sons were conscripted into the East Africa corps with Rommel, until that proved not to be a good alternative and many of those sons were killed. There were those who stayed and tried to protect - they found themselves sent to the Eastern Front, swallowed up in camps; and, when that land was ceded Russia, they were sent to gulags where they died. And then there were those who tried to just kill him - they paid the price - hanging. Trying to follow the whims of tyrants only gets one the moniker as a tyrant's lackey. The loyalty of the armed forces is to the US Constitution - NOT to a filthy felon who compared not contracting an STD as being the same as doing a tour in Vietnam. Sen Kelly just reminded the sailors and marines of that fact.

GARY HENDERSON's avatar

I just cannot understand why those in the military continue to follow illegal orders. BH

BG Pete Chiefari's avatar

What orders are you referring to Gary?

GARY HENDERSON's avatar

This isn't Gary's he's my husband. I'm Brenda. I put the "BH" after my comments to clarify that, & we share this substack membership w/ Gary's approval.

For one thing, this "war" isn't legal because Trump got around getting Congresses' approval by calling it something else. But it is war.

Janice D Stearns's avatar

We need a few more whistle blowers who take out a full page ad in the Times - exposing these incompetents!

Fred Krasner's avatar

BG Pete and Kate: Look at he Navy Captain who during the early months of Covid sailed his ship into port (Guam ??) so that the crew could get proper medical attention for infectious disease. He was not supported by higher command. He was chastised and suffered negative impacts to his Navy future. In other words, he was tossed overboard

by a leadership bureaucracy that prefers to cover its asses rather than lead. They would prefer to not make any waves, have sailors get sick (and maybe die) rather than proactively order the cleaning of the coffee urn.

All of these military institutions profess to have honor codes which will not tolerate lying, cheating, or stealing. Apparently, these values are just talking points; they don't seem to be principles to live by. Trump and Kegsip are dishonorable clowns who care nothing for the sacrifices made by those who serve under them or their families.

Also, I think Pete is correct when he observes that in the military it doesn't make sense to quit whenever your chain of command does something you find objectionable. Military jobs and skill sets are not fungible. If you've served for 9, 12, 15 years you can't just toss it away and lose everything invested in a career every time higher command disappoints you. Pete is right that it is better to work for change from within. But that requires that your chain of command listen with respect when bad news is delivered and when suggestions for remediating changes are offered. It can't work if the messenger is reflexively sidelined, demoted, or pathways to advancement are blocked.

Charlie's avatar

Exactly. And it's not like 'resignation' is even a viable option.

Charles Austin's avatar

Great point, Pete.

Lady Emsworth's avatar

That is the 'reason' given by a lot of people actually IN the first trump administration- 'oh, we can do more from the inside'

Didn't work then- and won't work now. . .

Mary Boudreau's avatar

BG Pete, you definitely aren’t naive. It’s an impossible situation that would be made worse by abandoning the enlisted. Staying and doing what you can, and keeping contemporaneous notes, is the correct choice. Performing for corrupt media and clueless civilians would make no sense at all.

Carol-Ann Dearnaley's avatar

Yes. When the chief spokesperson is an O-5? You're quite right. Officers with integrity were either dismissed, with no just cause, or resigned. The parallels to Hitler's armed forces is spooky - but then there will be a day reckoning - and those who have stayed to lick boots and carry out orders that denigrated the armed forces will pay a price. Just as the German officers did after the surrender. And there will be a reckoning - even if Kegsbreath is no longer Sec Def, he will pay a price. The Lt. Calley defense quickly loses its charm, especially when the victims are the troops you have led.

Rich Hope's avatar

Carriers stay on station and are re supplied by Navy supply ships. Planning is everything.

BG Pete Chiefari's avatar

Old military aphorism: "Amateurs talk tactics; professionals talk logistics!"

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

FYI...I went thru QM officer's basic after college...my Dad was CG of the QM Center and School at Ft Lee as his retirement billet until 1977.

Carol-Ann Dearnaley's avatar

Masters transcend both.

Kate's avatar

Of course the Navy has all the logistics to resupply this carrier . But why isn’t this one being resupplied? Is it that help can’t get thru the Strait? That we “control” with our blockade?

Bruce Kopetz's avatar

Malcolm Nance covered the logistical difficulties in yesterday's "Black Man Spy" podcast. Six-thousand sailors aboard the Lincoln eat 4 meals/day = 24,000 prepared meals served during every 24-hour period. Try maintaining that workload each day for eight months. Additionally, a major U.S. military supply depot is operated on Diego Garcia island, far south in the Indian Ocean. Weather is tropical. Food spends a lot of time in massive warehouses. Food has a shelf life and quickly degrades to the point of being largely inedible.

Rich Hope's avatar

I would not be so sure that the Navy has "all" that it needs to do all that Trump is doing. The Navy is no longer as big as it was, and they are going to have a huge recruitment problem.

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

Ask the CinC in the White House who commands the suckers and losers in uniform!

Carol-Ann Dearnaley's avatar

In a normal navy, yes. In the Kegseth's navy? No. None of the supply ships have made it in months, months. Maybe they were too ordinary, looked just too frumpy. They are not getting through. Nada. Hey! Since the majority are enlisted rank? Who cares?

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

At least Nixon and the two Bushes wore a uniform...Cadet Bone Spurs could give a shit based on results!

Charles W. Stotter's avatar

Everything you wrote Lucian is just common sense. But the current leaders of our country have no common sense. Nor do they have any integrity, empathy, compassion, or respect for our service people.

Remember when Trump referred to American servicemen/women buried in the cemeteries in Normandy as "suckers" and "losers"? There is a phrase that the fish rots from the head down. Well Trump is the head of our military and civilian leadership, and the rot is spreading fast from him to those who serve him in the military, and that rot is causing great harm to our regular service men and women.

I don't know how our military, much less we civilians, can survive another two years of Trump. Our only hope is to overwhelm him in November and re-take the House and Senate. At least then there may be some accountability for what this administration has done, and some limits placed on him and his miserable MAGA cult.

Greg's avatar

ETTD.

Everything Trump Touches Dies.

EVERYTHING.

Barbara (NJ)'s avatar

TOFU--t ONLY FUCKS UP (I simply cannot type his name)

Stephen Benson's avatar

i grew up on a reservation in arizona. in 1969 i heard that the navy fed you four times a day. i signed up

Cathy R's avatar

I hope you weren't disappointed and they did feed you 4 times a day.

Charlie's avatar
3dEdited

I got into a conversation at the commissary one day with a soldier. He was getting ready to participate in the field cooking competition (which was a very serious business, due to inter service rivalry). Just joking, I asked if it was going to be as good as his mother's cooking?

"If my mother could cook like that? I woulda stayed home!"

Ellen Franzen's avatar

I believe the golf competitions are the same way.

Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

Excellent piece, LKTIV. I appreciate your insight and your candor.

MaryPat's avatar

Ditto from here! Thank You, Lucian. I have a clear (and enraging) picture now .

Deepak Puri's avatar

Struggling with the "incredible firehose of MAGA shit that floods our lives every day"?

Watch this 1 minute video to understand Pete Hegseth's Iran War Plan.

https://youtu.be/Beip7EDzejA

Leigh Van Lydegraf's avatar

Hilarious...as a brat, former officer, 79 year old Boomer, I knew this was coming and Trump Plus Hegseth a recipe for disaster! They are the first two criminals and deserve a lengthy visit to Leavenworth...STAT!!!

Ellen Franzen's avatar

I want to see t in isolation, on bread and water for the rest of his life.

Jan Moon's avatar

I want so much worse for him. This latest broke my brain. Not sure where to put all this anger.

Ellen Franzen's avatar

Well, we could make him pay for his detention. Under normal circumstances, I would regard this as mistreatment of a prisoner, but this one is a special case, especially since he stopped AID.

Charlie's avatar

Democracy Labs! They do good stuff. Can't say I found some of it funny. Too close. Even my dark humor is worn down today.

MaryPat's avatar

Deepak Puri (who responded above and posted this one) creates the excellentt Democracy Labs.

Ellen Franzen's avatar

As usual, Deepak, you're the best. I like the slide with the Marines in it the best.

robert bell's avatar

And the CinC added insult to his dereliction of duty when that a reporter asked him if the deployment of the Lincoln was too long. His answer “not long enough if you ask me

Wonder how long Eric and Don Jr. would last on a deploymen? About as long as their old man did.

Ellen Franzen's avatar

As long as t would have lasted on the Navy golf team...

Cathy 98280's avatar

Good one, Ellen! 😁

Rich Hope's avatar

To properly supply Navy ships thousands of miles from the USA requires pre-planning by very smart people in advance. Draft dodger Trump never learned that. He started this disgraceful mess on a whim, without thinking. This child I man then tells the sailors that they have not been at sea "long enough"! Our mentally ill President, sick since birth.

Don Quixote's Reckless Son's avatar

The Trump administration's leadership isn't at fault. They're doing a heckuva job! The problem is that the US military has gone woke and soft, too low-T.

\s

Bubbens20's avatar

More ball tanning is needed.

Joan Tidwell's avatar

Right you are, Reckless Son, get that testosterone in those sailors NOW.

Doris Corea's avatar

Are you for real!!

Don Quixote's Reckless Son's avatar

I’m for real, my post wasn’t.

As Ally House pointed out below, the \s means “end sarcasm”.

Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

Ergo the "s/" which can be either "snark" or "sarcasm".

Doris Corea's avatar

What are you referring to?????

Ally House (Oregon)'s avatar

Your comment to DQ Reckless Son where you asked “are you for real?”.

He was being sarcastic.

Doris Corea's avatar

That’s how it sounded to me. But I leave wide latitude that it’s wasn’t meant to be snarky.

Mark DeBofsky's avatar

Bravo! It boils down to respect. The level of disrespect being shown to those who volunteer to serve is emblematic of this administration where the only respect shown is to money.

Myra Marx Ferree's avatar

This is I think the heart of the matter: respect. Respect the work, and the workers who do it means respecting their needs and desires too. Getting decent food, getting off the ship, getting mail are all signs of respect for the sailors and commanders who respect their people get respect in return. But this is beyond T’s ability to understand. Fear, loyalty, submission are very different and far less able to keep people committed to their jobs.