It’s never a good sign when, if you’re conspiring to overthrow the government, some of the people you’re conspiring with become known as PERSON-1, PERSON-2, and PERSON-3, because that usually means this transformation of your former conspirators into cooperators with the government you were attempting to overthrow came to your attention in a brand new indictment, and it’s an even worse sign when that indictment is delivered to you in your jail cell where you are already facing a previous indictment.
Good point, we shouldn't gloat too much about their hare-brained scheming and "no loyalty among thieves" ratting each other out so much we forget how dangrous they, or their crackpot ideology, remains even so.
There are so many stupid people out there....so, so many. Many of them are fundamentalist Christians too. IMO, that belief system destroys critical thinking skills and encourages bigotry and hatred.
Exactly. Some dopes have just enough organizational ability, they can, collectively be dangerous. Marjorie Taylor Green, though she refers to petri dishes as 'peach tree dishes' and the Gestapo as 'Gazpacho,' had enough in the way of street smarts to get elected by fellow stupid people.
And I had a lot of fun reading it!! As good as the evidence against these dangerous buffoons is, the next step is convicting them. And that will depend on a jury that will actually listen to and understand that evidence.
About time we saw some Sedition charges leveled. American justice is so timid these days about serious crimes -- white collar crooks skate no matter how many billions they scam or lose for others while working people can be fired for taking rubber bands from the supply closet or locked up for pilfering a sack of groceries. Trump and his band of traitors and enablers are still walking free and gloating about it and planning a second coup but a few miserable stooges might finally face some serious charges. Maybe these will trickle up. In the olden days, people used to face treason penalties for just speaking ill of the King or poaching a deer in a royal park. Not advocating a return to the days of yore, but we need a balance here! Americans think their "exceptionalism" extends to offering a blanket amnesty for conspirators and seditionists because "it can't happen HERE!" Wrong.
This is all very delightful, but until tRUMP is indicted, convicted and given a life sentence for treason, it’s ultimately meaningless. Convicting the stupid, ignorant, gullible little guys while letting the leaders get away is a terrible miscarriage of justice.
I agree completely, Ms. Testa. I hope getting the "boys" convicted & imprisoned is just the first step. Trying, convicting, & locking up the treasonous Orange Stain (and his allies) should be the ultimate goal in this process.
I didn’t say the lower level shouldn’t be prosecuted; I suggested that it is unfair that ONLY the lower level is prosecuted. Personally I don’t see any possibility that a case against tRump and others will ever be built from the bottom up.
Thanks! Here's a link from the lawfareblog to the relevant document, and I hope "non-lawyers" will take a look and realize there is no reason to be intimidated by this kind of legal writing --- unlike some interminably excruciating "hair-splitting" analysis vital for a difficult issue in some area of the law, these indictments thrive on straightforward clarity and just laying out the allegations, enjoy these dangerous, misguided nitwits as they are revealed to be extremely inept if still dangerous to democracy.
More will be revealed about these wannabe but bumbling revolutionaries on Thursday during the first of the January 6 Committee's televised hearings. Among the witnesses: Oscar-nominated filmmaker Nick Quested, whose team was embedded with the Proud Boys to make a documentary about them during the tumultuous days leading up to the insurrection. Think about it — these legends in their own minds wanted a movie made of them attempting to overthrow the government. Were they that confident of winning, or that stupid?
Hubris and Nemesis --- by no coincidence that's the titles of parts 1 and 2 of Ian Kershaw's bio of Hitler - 1 is 1889-1935, 2 1935-45, I think. The Thousand Year Reich that lasted twelve horrific years.
Some may be a bit surprised at how quickly Hitler's Nazis went into open repression after Hitler was elevated to Chancellor, January 30, 1933. That is, Between February 1 1933 and July 1, they had carried out a whole series of anti-democratic crackdowns, enacted repressive statutes, made mass arrests, forced others to flee to Switzerland or elsewhere, runs the gamut of what totalitarians look like gearing up for absolute control.
It stuns one to know that these 'teenage boys' (which is where their mentality was at, of course) actually thought that they would get away with this kind of bullshit and they gave themselves away so totally that each one of them is probably going to do some very serious time in the order of decades in prison, if not their lifetimes.
It's obvious that they all thought that the government is helpless, hapless and morons enough to ignore or not prosecute them for this. Did they not think that someone might take action against them? How incredibly stupid of them.
Did they really believe that the government was incapable of cracking all of their 'encrypted' messages on the various platforms? They obviously do not understand that the government has the power to do that, and some very smart hackers can unencrypt anything they so choose at the drop of a hat or indictment.
How very utterly stupid of them to believe that Trump was the only one in the government worth listening to...and that he was right in calling them to action.
Which is why I'm waiting for something of the very serious nature to actually be done on Trump's actions in this entire spectacle. If that ever happens (Merrick Garland might do it) you can be assured there will be hundreds of very disappointed followers who will discover out that he really didn't have their backs for any of this.
He only had his own, and they're the fools for believing him. I want to see it happen.
The DOJ undoubtedly had a great time writing up the indictments-they tend to take their jobs very, very seriously, and I would never underestimate their power to inflict very serious pain on someone for breaking the law.
Oh, and one other lesson: don't ever underestimate the United States government when it comes to prosecuting sedition, which is the one set of laws that they only go to when they're seriously pissed off. One will never get out of prison on those-ever.
That is the fault of the government as well-miscommunication (or none at all) did the worst damage. Witness the calls from the Capitol to other people, and actual dereliction of duty. Disgraceful.
Yes, But it was also intentional communicationby the tRump administration - no National Guard to assist the DC cops, No military back up. Definition of a coups.
If they thought that overturning the election were possible (which was not the case) they're were massively insane to believe Trump would have the power to pardon them. Credulity strains the imagination to believe stupid stuff. Guess they'll find out how stupid they were at trial.
Next time they won't be idiots pretending to be smart. Jan 6th showed it was possible to breach the capitol. Next time the angry white boys will be ready and have iron will and a kamikaze commitment. It will happen again because the prize is the future of America.
methinks da boyz have seen to many hollywood movies and not enough history & civics books. “all that was once directly lived is now mere representation “ - guy du bord.
This scurvey band of morons will probably do some time for all of this, while the real seditionists at the top will most likely skate, or at best, receive a slap on the wrist. This is the paradigm of what passes for justice in American jurisprudence.
Lucian, you had fun writing that one, didn’t you?
Bonus points awarded for use of the hilarious (and apt) antiquated word "nincompoop"!
But of course, many if not most Germans laughed at the goofball early Nazis, too -- until it was too late for joking.
Good point, we shouldn't gloat too much about their hare-brained scheming and "no loyalty among thieves" ratting each other out so much we forget how dangrous they, or their crackpot ideology, remains even so.
There are so many stupid people out there....so, so many. Many of them are fundamentalist Christians too. IMO, that belief system destroys critical thinking skills and encourages bigotry and hatred.
Exactly. Some dopes have just enough organizational ability, they can, collectively be dangerous. Marjorie Taylor Green, though she refers to petri dishes as 'peach tree dishes' and the Gestapo as 'Gazpacho,' had enough in the way of street smarts to get elected by fellow stupid people.
Stupid angry people feel they deserve representation, too! Now let's see some Marshall law!
And I had a lot of fun reading it!! As good as the evidence against these dangerous buffoons is, the next step is convicting them. And that will depend on a jury that will actually listen to and understand that evidence.
Wow, sedition, such an ancient word. Let’s hope this expands to include members of congress who were involved as well as the former President
Your lips to God’s ears!
About time we saw some Sedition charges leveled. American justice is so timid these days about serious crimes -- white collar crooks skate no matter how many billions they scam or lose for others while working people can be fired for taking rubber bands from the supply closet or locked up for pilfering a sack of groceries. Trump and his band of traitors and enablers are still walking free and gloating about it and planning a second coup but a few miserable stooges might finally face some serious charges. Maybe these will trickle up. In the olden days, people used to face treason penalties for just speaking ill of the King or poaching a deer in a royal park. Not advocating a return to the days of yore, but we need a balance here! Americans think their "exceptionalism" extends to offering a blanket amnesty for conspirators and seditionists because "it can't happen HERE!" Wrong.
From Proud Mary to Proud Boys…Big wheel keep on turning.
This is all very delightful, but until tRUMP is indicted, convicted and given a life sentence for treason, it’s ultimately meaningless. Convicting the stupid, ignorant, gullible little guys while letting the leaders get away is a terrible miscarriage of justice.
I agree completely, Ms. Testa. I hope getting the "boys" convicted & imprisoned is just the first step. Trying, convicting, & locking up the treasonous Orange Stain (and his allies) should be the ultimate goal in this process.
And your plan for getting to the leaders without building the case bottom up is . . . ?
I didn’t say the lower level shouldn’t be prosecuted; I suggested that it is unfair that ONLY the lower level is prosecuted. Personally I don’t see any possibility that a case against tRump and others will ever be built from the bottom up.
Thanks! Here's a link from the lawfareblog to the relevant document, and I hope "non-lawyers" will take a look and realize there is no reason to be intimidated by this kind of legal writing --- unlike some interminably excruciating "hair-splitting" analysis vital for a difficult issue in some area of the law, these indictments thrive on straightforward clarity and just laying out the allegations, enjoy these dangerous, misguided nitwits as they are revealed to be extremely inept if still dangerous to democracy.
www.lawfareblog.com/proud-boys-leader-and-four-other-members-charged-seditious-conspiracy
Such an enjoyable read... Schadenfreude is delicious.
They really are boys - playing deadly serious games without realizing the consequences. Well, reality paid them a visit.
Nordean is a local guy - Seattle area. Seattle Times reported today he's facing 50 years if convicted.
Here's hoping the unindicted co-conspirators (such a lovely term) reach all the way to The Former Administration and The Former Guy.
More will be revealed about these wannabe but bumbling revolutionaries on Thursday during the first of the January 6 Committee's televised hearings. Among the witnesses: Oscar-nominated filmmaker Nick Quested, whose team was embedded with the Proud Boys to make a documentary about them during the tumultuous days leading up to the insurrection. Think about it — these legends in their own minds wanted a movie made of them attempting to overthrow the government. Were they that confident of winning, or that stupid?
More about Quested here: https://nickquested.com/about/
Hubris and Nemesis --- by no coincidence that's the titles of parts 1 and 2 of Ian Kershaw's bio of Hitler - 1 is 1889-1935, 2 1935-45, I think. The Thousand Year Reich that lasted twelve horrific years.
Some may be a bit surprised at how quickly Hitler's Nazis went into open repression after Hitler was elevated to Chancellor, January 30, 1933. That is, Between February 1 1933 and July 1, they had carried out a whole series of anti-democratic crackdowns, enacted repressive statutes, made mass arrests, forced others to flee to Switzerland or elsewhere, runs the gamut of what totalitarians look like gearing up for absolute control.
Useful idiots. We can only hope these breadcrumbs expose a trail leading back to the real conspirators, Bannon, Stone, and the Nasty Narcissist
And when will the Justice Dept. Address the Repug politicians that collaborated and RECEIVED those emails? The Hour is Late.
America’s night is dark and full of terrors.
It stuns one to know that these 'teenage boys' (which is where their mentality was at, of course) actually thought that they would get away with this kind of bullshit and they gave themselves away so totally that each one of them is probably going to do some very serious time in the order of decades in prison, if not their lifetimes.
It's obvious that they all thought that the government is helpless, hapless and morons enough to ignore or not prosecute them for this. Did they not think that someone might take action against them? How incredibly stupid of them.
Did they really believe that the government was incapable of cracking all of their 'encrypted' messages on the various platforms? They obviously do not understand that the government has the power to do that, and some very smart hackers can unencrypt anything they so choose at the drop of a hat or indictment.
How very utterly stupid of them to believe that Trump was the only one in the government worth listening to...and that he was right in calling them to action.
Which is why I'm waiting for something of the very serious nature to actually be done on Trump's actions in this entire spectacle. If that ever happens (Merrick Garland might do it) you can be assured there will be hundreds of very disappointed followers who will discover out that he really didn't have their backs for any of this.
He only had his own, and they're the fools for believing him. I want to see it happen.
The DOJ undoubtedly had a great time writing up the indictments-they tend to take their jobs very, very seriously, and I would never underestimate their power to inflict very serious pain on someone for breaking the law.
Oh, and one other lesson: don't ever underestimate the United States government when it comes to prosecuting sedition, which is the one set of laws that they only go to when they're seriously pissed off. One will never get out of prison on those-ever.
I agree. Except the proud boys almost won. No National Guard troops. No military. The stage was set for their Academy Award winning dickumentary.
That is the fault of the government as well-miscommunication (or none at all) did the worst damage. Witness the calls from the Capitol to other people, and actual dereliction of duty. Disgraceful.
Yes, But it was also intentional communicationby the tRump administration - no National Guard to assist the DC cops, No military back up. Definition of a coups.
Is it possible they could be pardoned and released if convicted?? Maybe they understood the risk, but counted/still count on a pardon?
If they thought that overturning the election were possible (which was not the case) they're were massively insane to believe Trump would have the power to pardon them. Credulity strains the imagination to believe stupid stuff. Guess they'll find out how stupid they were at trial.
Next time they won't be idiots pretending to be smart. Jan 6th showed it was possible to breach the capitol. Next time the angry white boys will be ready and have iron will and a kamikaze commitment. It will happen again because the prize is the future of America.
And assault rifles
methinks da boyz have seen to many hollywood movies and not enough history & civics books. “all that was once directly lived is now mere representation “ - guy du bord.
Wake me when Individual-1 is perp walked
This scurvey band of morons will probably do some time for all of this, while the real seditionists at the top will most likely skate, or at best, receive a slap on the wrist. This is the paradigm of what passes for justice in American jurisprudence.
Loved reading this. Thanks a bunch for making my evening better off.