Trump has told so many lies about migrants and crime and everything else that his base voters are immune to argument at this point, and of course, so is Trump. So, what should Biden do? He should talk about the dozens and dozens of American citizens who lost their lives to mass shootings while Donald Trump was in the White House, refusing for his four years in office to do anything meaningful against gun violence. He didn’t do anything about crimes by migrants during the same period, but that’s another argument Biden shouldn’t make. Instead, he should list deaths by mass shootings, most of which were done by shooters using AR-15 style rifles that Trump nixed putting any sort of controls on.
At the debate, I would love to see Biden look Trump in the eye and simply state, “You, sir, are a convicted felon, a habitual liar, a rapist, and a grifter who— while claiming to be a billionaire — constantly begs your supporters for money that many of them cannot afford to give you. In short, you, sir, are a disgrace.”
I think Biden should remind people that the “successful” businessman Trump had filed several bankruptcies thereby screwing working class tradespeople who he owed money to. Also document and remind voters that Biden’s first term was good for all Americans INCLUDING Trump supporters. And don’t get me started on Trump’s disparaging remarks about veteran’s being “suckers” and “losers”.
youve touched on an important debate strategy. certainly with the debate rule of cutting off mikes (mics?) there will be lots of oppo-debater reactions on both sides.
wdr to your comment, i feel it would be wrong for biden to make **any** sound, since surely trumphole will be shouting across the floor over his muted mike.
biden should appear presidentially above that crass act.
i hope there are better minds than i who are coaching biden on the best moves to handle trumps attempts to overtalk bidens turn to talk. certainly within their response i think they should employ bidens 10,000 watt (10kw?) camera-ready smile.
For a comment on a different post, I looked up the total audiences of (on cable) Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN (as news viewers) and (on "live" TV) ABC, NBC and CBS (total, not just news). The total was around 15 million people. There are 244 million people eligible to vote in November (by age, not registration).
The gap shows us how MANY "low information voters" there must be in the US. I'm pretty sure the number of us who read news, not watch it, doesn't add much to the total.
Excellent advice, let's hope the Biden prep follows that line or something very similar.
Meanwhile, this is encouraging as we approach a high stakes showdown much earlier than usual in an American presidential campaign, and it's due to hubristic, arrogant help from the Trump cultists and their cynical enablers, too!
Conservatives could accidentally help Biden win his debate with Trump - Margaret Sullivan
Biden has a tough task ahead in this week’s debate – but, thanks in part to rightwing attacks, the bar he faces is low
Mon 24 Jun 2024 06.01 EDT
Last modified on Mon 24 Jun 2024 11.35 EDT ***** Excerpt *****
If Joe Biden is to win November’s election, he must win this week’s televised debate. He must come off as energetic and competent. He must make the case, persuasively, that Donald Trump is a danger to the nation and the world. And, perhaps most of all, he must seem mentally sharp.
That’s a lot to do in under 90 minutes, especially while sharing the stage with someone as unpredictable as Trump, whose dominant personality and in-your-face tactics can put him at an advantage.
Luckily for Biden – and anyone who gives a damn about the future of America – the president already has some crucial advantages going into Thursday evening’s CNN debate.
the cons (pejorative diminutive intended) having been lulled into believing biden is weak and senile, likely have made it somewhat easier for biden to show he is stronger and more mentally capable than gops and MAGAts believe.
of course we know the cultist MAGAts will never have their minds changed (hah, as if they had any to change). however, im sure there still do exist rational conservatives in the republican camp who can be shown that biden is the only competent candidate to oversee this country.
here, i'll voice a concern ive had that, what if trumps handlers can convince him to stay quiet and when its his turn to speak, he speaks normally or at least avoid rambling and to project the picture of a capable candidate. i know i know trump will be trump and will want to rage and whine, but if he comes across anywhere close to looking sane and capable, those undecideds will vote for him.
is that too high a bar for trump to restrain himself?
This is truly a horrific list of mass shootings in the US during the seven years. I agree that Biden needs to be on the attack. I'd also love to see Roberts, Alito, and Thomas respond to this article. I wonder how they can sleep at night.
I think Biden should let trump know that he has Seal Team 6 on standby regarding the SCOTUS decision on presidential immunity for crimes committed while president.
As long as Joe does Joe he will do well. I disagree with w/the pundits due to them not mentioning authenticity's positive impact on people. Doesn't matter what the subjects are as long as Joe remains true to self. And that includes not being concerned what or how Trump says things. Joe knows how to respond in his own style.
As of this writing am not 100% certain Trump will not cancel. As reported that Team Biden and only Trump agreed to the debates and rules. As reported the Trump inner circle and campaign were caught off guard.
Team Trump and Trump have been all over the map as the debate draws nearer. Surrogates have spent more than a week attacking CNN, specifically Jake Tapper. One red is obvious, to try to influence CNN management, Tapper and Dana Bash to keep their powder dry when it comes to the questions posed to Trump.
No journo worth their salt would approach their role with the mind set of, hey let's treat a known madman and an old man the same, then draw up questions that somehow reflect some bizarro balance. The two candidates are different and should be approached reflecting the difference.
It wouldn't surprise me if Trump called it off and left the inner circle and campaign to come up with a Truth Social post accusing CNN and the Biden campaign of collusion. Or any other number of excuses. Again, have no evidence to that end. Do see a pattern emerging of Trump and surrogates testing all sorts of pre-debate positions from jabbing Joe w/PEDs, being a seasoned debater, to Trump asking rally goers should he be nasty or nice, a constant drum beat of what amounts to fuq CNN, and Jake Tapper.
And wouldn't discount another aspect, Trump's obsession with teevee ratings. Does he want to hand CNN a ratings win or would he prefer to play them right up to the last minute leaving egg on the faces of CNN? So, a Friday debate is 80% likely to happen yet wouldn't dismiss the 20% of it not.
If the debate is held, confident Trump will attack the moderators. If Joe is not himself, there will not be a 2nd debate. No way will Trump give Joe a second chance. And if Trump flops, hopefully, Joe says no-go to a 2nd debate.
I'll be (pleasantly?) surprised if Trump shows up. Your hypotheses about how this might play out ring true to me -- all of them! at the same time! I've just got my fingers crossed that enough of the journos know how to approach this "event," and, about the "old" thing, they'll keep in mind that Trump isn't exactly young and his mental and physical decline has been out there in public for years.
Agree the age card cuts both ways, along with post-debate analysis plays an oversized role and will include silly opinions on silly things My concern is the press following the path they've been on this entire century of [over] reacting without first breathing. Once a dumb take is out there, there is no way to take it down or back. And since the press now includes an entire legion with a declared slant toward Trump and against Joe, should see/read/hear some doozies.
Sticking to my 80-20 probabilty position right up until both men appear on the stage. Even then, it is not outside the realm of possibility he decides at some point it's in his best interest to exit stage left. Dude is a drama kween.
There's also the way the journos and the punditos boil every issue down to one or two words no matter how complicated it is, and/or what the president can do about it. And often the electorate doesn't have nearly enough background knowledge to make sense of it. At the top of my list at the moment is "inflation."
+100. The press turned a word with a speciific meaning to something nebulous
Inflation has a litany of components, rarely if ever does the press show them. Not all components affect families/households/retirees equally. Another critical data the press omits is inflation by region. Also noticeably absent regularly are wages, savings rates, how typical IRAs are faring, and corporate profitability. They all need to be spoken to and displayed. Yet the press finds the space and time for a whole lot of fluff. (Not the real Marshmallow Fluff).
And of course there is nevah evah any context as to how the USA stacks up v. the rest of the G7 beginning with the COVID Crisis to the present.
I like the stay on the attack strategy, but I don't see talking about gun restrictions as a winning strategy. Of course it makes sense, it's good policy, and most people want it but I don't think it motivates most voters at the presidential level. It's too complicated for most voters and too hard to show a direct relationship between the restriction and the shootings. I'd like to see Biden emphasize democracy and the freedoms advanced by democrats, like reproductive rights, versus the MAGA policy of passing laws restricting anything they don't like.
This is what I want to tell Joe how to be in the debate: Do not be amused by the bullshit that comes out of Trump's mouth. Establish inside yourself the kind of seething anger and protective impulses as if everything Trump has done to the nation he has done to all of your closest friends and family. (Because he has.) Rant Joe. Rant. But with purpose. Reveal his motivations. Be harsh. Tell him what we all know about him that his followers can't see. It's against your character to let someone have it harshly. It was beautiful the way you did it in the State Of The Union when you challenged the Republicans. But this needs to be harshly direct. It's against your character to do this which is part of how many of us love you. But Trump is evil incarnate. Take the gloves off Joe. Examples: Directly To Trump: "You will do anything to serve your selfish purposes. You spread the huge damaging lie that we can't trust our voting system. You are ready to tank our trust in our democracy for the sake of your own self. About 60 court cases, many many with Republican appointed Judges were absolute in their judgments that there was no fraud in the elections--but you continue to spread the lie. And so painfully, people are believing you. You are wrecking out country for your own wish for power..and now also to avoid the consequences for cheating and lying to our nation." ..." You have aligned yourself with Putin who has committed crimes against humanity in his aggression toward Ukraine. If the U.S. does not be in the role central protector of European democracies Putin will spread his aggression. It's understood that you will withdraw support from protecting Ukraine. Then, between you and Putin and Orban and every autocratic leader you will kill all possibility of cooperation for the good of the people. You don't care about the people. Never have. Never will." (and then to the tv audience): "He will never care about you. And neither will the Maga Republicans running for congress." Bring up that "the violent organizations that followed your lead in the insurrection of January 6 are waiting in the wings if you lose this election. They are still following your orders." Bring up how he has sowed disrespect of law enforcement and what this does to us. Call him an idiot liar. Quote him wondering if injecting bleach would kill Covid. Quote him saying, 'I don't care about you. I just want your vote' when he was complaining about the heat at his Las Vegas rally. Don't be a gentleman. Trump has never been called out in public directly. Be harsh. Speak truth. Speak from the angriest most protective feelings you have. Don't defend anything Trump says when he speaks. Just go after him.
Too bad you can't take his place. Excellent strategy. And I may be way off, but I'm not certain Trump will even show. He's already quasi-conceding that Joe will win.
Terrific piece, and a terrific strategy, which carries more than a whiff of the commander of the Third Infantry Division, VI Corps, and Fifth Army during the Second World War. Insert saluting emoji here.
Attack attack attack fersure, not so sure the sole subject should be gun control—Tom Clements puts it well. Call in the focus group. (Did the location of your N° 1, worst shooting get lost along the way? Las Vegas, right?)
At the debate, I would love to see Biden look Trump in the eye and simply state, “You, sir, are a convicted felon, a habitual liar, a rapist, and a grifter who— while claiming to be a billionaire — constantly begs your supporters for money that many of them cannot afford to give you. In short, you, sir, are a disgrace.”
Great points, I'd also add serial fraudster who owes $350M in civil judgments.
Also, the obvious: « You are an evil imbecile and traitor »
…you, sir, are a criminal as well as a disgrace.
Superb
What an excellent suggestion. I'd love to see and hear that.
I would pay money I don't have to watch that!
And an adulterer to be added to the list.
I think Biden should remind people that the “successful” businessman Trump had filed several bankruptcies thereby screwing working class tradespeople who he owed money to. Also document and remind voters that Biden’s first term was good for all Americans INCLUDING Trump supporters. And don’t get me started on Trump’s disparaging remarks about veteran’s being “suckers” and “losers”.
Biden should laugh loudly at any foolish remark by the Donald.
TR,
youve touched on an important debate strategy. certainly with the debate rule of cutting off mikes (mics?) there will be lots of oppo-debater reactions on both sides.
wdr to your comment, i feel it would be wrong for biden to make **any** sound, since surely trumphole will be shouting across the floor over his muted mike.
biden should appear presidentially above that crass act.
i hope there are better minds than i who are coaching biden on the best moves to handle trumps attempts to overtalk bidens turn to talk. certainly within their response i think they should employ bidens 10,000 watt (10kw?) camera-ready smile.
I do think he could roll his eyes if sharks and dripping showers come up. Or show a barely suppressed laugh.
yes, SL,
his debate preps should be in front of a camera so he/they can strategize on the best optics.
the visuals will be most important to pull in low-information voters, of which I'm afraid make up much of the voting populace.
For a comment on a different post, I looked up the total audiences of (on cable) Fox News, MSNBC, and CNN (as news viewers) and (on "live" TV) ABC, NBC and CBS (total, not just news). The total was around 15 million people. There are 244 million people eligible to vote in November (by age, not registration).
The gap shows us how MANY "low information voters" there must be in the US. I'm pretty sure the number of us who read news, not watch it, doesn't add much to the total.
youre spot on, SL.
there is a surfeit of ppl in the populace who are fixated upon the moving picture, easily distracted by the shiny things presented to them.
i truly believe trumphole got much of his cult thru those who were enthralled by his tv persona.
and those are the ones who make much of the faux news viewership.
the deplorable thing, however, is that there still are too many dem voters who also fall into that low information pit of cable tv.
Tough call...I'd pound his head with a bag of wet shark bits but of course he can't do that. Joe should be Joe...PERIOD.
I’d come out wearing a shark costume. (If only)
Wired to light up as if electrocuted when wearer switches it on.
😂😂😂
😂😂😂
Dark Brandon, baby. 😉
Excellent advice, let's hope the Biden prep follows that line or something very similar.
Meanwhile, this is encouraging as we approach a high stakes showdown much earlier than usual in an American presidential campaign, and it's due to hubristic, arrogant help from the Trump cultists and their cynical enablers, too!
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/24/trump-biden-debate-rightwing-media
Conservatives could accidentally help Biden win his debate with Trump - Margaret Sullivan
Biden has a tough task ahead in this week’s debate – but, thanks in part to rightwing attacks, the bar he faces is low
Mon 24 Jun 2024 06.01 EDT
Last modified on Mon 24 Jun 2024 11.35 EDT ***** Excerpt *****
If Joe Biden is to win November’s election, he must win this week’s televised debate. He must come off as energetic and competent. He must make the case, persuasively, that Donald Trump is a danger to the nation and the world. And, perhaps most of all, he must seem mentally sharp.
That’s a lot to do in under 90 minutes, especially while sharing the stage with someone as unpredictable as Trump, whose dominant personality and in-your-face tactics can put him at an advantage.
Luckily for Biden – and anyone who gives a damn about the future of America – the president already has some crucial advantages going into Thursday evening’s CNN debate.
******
yes, RT, J.D.,
the cons (pejorative diminutive intended) having been lulled into believing biden is weak and senile, likely have made it somewhat easier for biden to show he is stronger and more mentally capable than gops and MAGAts believe.
of course we know the cultist MAGAts will never have their minds changed (hah, as if they had any to change). however, im sure there still do exist rational conservatives in the republican camp who can be shown that biden is the only competent candidate to oversee this country.
here, i'll voice a concern ive had that, what if trumps handlers can convince him to stay quiet and when its his turn to speak, he speaks normally or at least avoid rambling and to project the picture of a capable candidate. i know i know trump will be trump and will want to rage and whine, but if he comes across anywhere close to looking sane and capable, those undecideds will vote for him.
is that too high a bar for trump to restrain himself?
we'll see hmm.
This is truly a horrific list of mass shootings in the US during the seven years. I agree that Biden needs to be on the attack. I'd also love to see Roberts, Alito, and Thomas respond to this article. I wonder how they can sleep at night.
I think Biden should let trump know that he has Seal Team 6 on standby regarding the SCOTUS decision on presidential immunity for crimes committed while president.
★★★★★
Yes, yes, YES! Send a copy of this to Biden’s team, please.
I hope the administration gets a copy of this in bold letters and uses it
As long as Joe does Joe he will do well. I disagree with w/the pundits due to them not mentioning authenticity's positive impact on people. Doesn't matter what the subjects are as long as Joe remains true to self. And that includes not being concerned what or how Trump says things. Joe knows how to respond in his own style.
As of this writing am not 100% certain Trump will not cancel. As reported that Team Biden and only Trump agreed to the debates and rules. As reported the Trump inner circle and campaign were caught off guard.
Team Trump and Trump have been all over the map as the debate draws nearer. Surrogates have spent more than a week attacking CNN, specifically Jake Tapper. One red is obvious, to try to influence CNN management, Tapper and Dana Bash to keep their powder dry when it comes to the questions posed to Trump.
No journo worth their salt would approach their role with the mind set of, hey let's treat a known madman and an old man the same, then draw up questions that somehow reflect some bizarro balance. The two candidates are different and should be approached reflecting the difference.
It wouldn't surprise me if Trump called it off and left the inner circle and campaign to come up with a Truth Social post accusing CNN and the Biden campaign of collusion. Or any other number of excuses. Again, have no evidence to that end. Do see a pattern emerging of Trump and surrogates testing all sorts of pre-debate positions from jabbing Joe w/PEDs, being a seasoned debater, to Trump asking rally goers should he be nasty or nice, a constant drum beat of what amounts to fuq CNN, and Jake Tapper.
And wouldn't discount another aspect, Trump's obsession with teevee ratings. Does he want to hand CNN a ratings win or would he prefer to play them right up to the last minute leaving egg on the faces of CNN? So, a Friday debate is 80% likely to happen yet wouldn't dismiss the 20% of it not.
If the debate is held, confident Trump will attack the moderators. If Joe is not himself, there will not be a 2nd debate. No way will Trump give Joe a second chance. And if Trump flops, hopefully, Joe says no-go to a 2nd debate.
I'll be (pleasantly?) surprised if Trump shows up. Your hypotheses about how this might play out ring true to me -- all of them! at the same time! I've just got my fingers crossed that enough of the journos know how to approach this "event," and, about the "old" thing, they'll keep in mind that Trump isn't exactly young and his mental and physical decline has been out there in public for years.
Agree the age card cuts both ways, along with post-debate analysis plays an oversized role and will include silly opinions on silly things My concern is the press following the path they've been on this entire century of [over] reacting without first breathing. Once a dumb take is out there, there is no way to take it down or back. And since the press now includes an entire legion with a declared slant toward Trump and against Joe, should see/read/hear some doozies.
Sticking to my 80-20 probabilty position right up until both men appear on the stage. Even then, it is not outside the realm of possibility he decides at some point it's in his best interest to exit stage left. Dude is a drama kween.
There's also the way the journos and the punditos boil every issue down to one or two words no matter how complicated it is, and/or what the president can do about it. And often the electorate doesn't have nearly enough background knowledge to make sense of it. At the top of my list at the moment is "inflation."
+100. The press turned a word with a speciific meaning to something nebulous
Inflation has a litany of components, rarely if ever does the press show them. Not all components affect families/households/retirees equally. Another critical data the press omits is inflation by region. Also noticeably absent regularly are wages, savings rates, how typical IRAs are faring, and corporate profitability. They all need to be spoken to and displayed. Yet the press finds the space and time for a whole lot of fluff. (Not the real Marshmallow Fluff).
And of course there is nevah evah any context as to how the USA stacks up v. the rest of the G7 beginning with the COVID Crisis to the present.
I like the stay on the attack strategy, but I don't see talking about gun restrictions as a winning strategy. Of course it makes sense, it's good policy, and most people want it but I don't think it motivates most voters at the presidential level. It's too complicated for most voters and too hard to show a direct relationship between the restriction and the shootings. I'd like to see Biden emphasize democracy and the freedoms advanced by democrats, like reproductive rights, versus the MAGA policy of passing laws restricting anything they don't like.
This is what I want to tell Joe how to be in the debate: Do not be amused by the bullshit that comes out of Trump's mouth. Establish inside yourself the kind of seething anger and protective impulses as if everything Trump has done to the nation he has done to all of your closest friends and family. (Because he has.) Rant Joe. Rant. But with purpose. Reveal his motivations. Be harsh. Tell him what we all know about him that his followers can't see. It's against your character to let someone have it harshly. It was beautiful the way you did it in the State Of The Union when you challenged the Republicans. But this needs to be harshly direct. It's against your character to do this which is part of how many of us love you. But Trump is evil incarnate. Take the gloves off Joe. Examples: Directly To Trump: "You will do anything to serve your selfish purposes. You spread the huge damaging lie that we can't trust our voting system. You are ready to tank our trust in our democracy for the sake of your own self. About 60 court cases, many many with Republican appointed Judges were absolute in their judgments that there was no fraud in the elections--but you continue to spread the lie. And so painfully, people are believing you. You are wrecking out country for your own wish for power..and now also to avoid the consequences for cheating and lying to our nation." ..." You have aligned yourself with Putin who has committed crimes against humanity in his aggression toward Ukraine. If the U.S. does not be in the role central protector of European democracies Putin will spread his aggression. It's understood that you will withdraw support from protecting Ukraine. Then, between you and Putin and Orban and every autocratic leader you will kill all possibility of cooperation for the good of the people. You don't care about the people. Never have. Never will." (and then to the tv audience): "He will never care about you. And neither will the Maga Republicans running for congress." Bring up that "the violent organizations that followed your lead in the insurrection of January 6 are waiting in the wings if you lose this election. They are still following your orders." Bring up how he has sowed disrespect of law enforcement and what this does to us. Call him an idiot liar. Quote him wondering if injecting bleach would kill Covid. Quote him saying, 'I don't care about you. I just want your vote' when he was complaining about the heat at his Las Vegas rally. Don't be a gentleman. Trump has never been called out in public directly. Be harsh. Speak truth. Speak from the angriest most protective feelings you have. Don't defend anything Trump says when he speaks. Just go after him.
Too bad you can't take his place. Excellent strategy. And I may be way off, but I'm not certain Trump will even show. He's already quasi-conceding that Joe will win.
Great coaching Biden!
Terrific piece, and a terrific strategy, which carries more than a whiff of the commander of the Third Infantry Division, VI Corps, and Fifth Army during the Second World War. Insert saluting emoji here.
Attack attack attack fersure, not so sure the sole subject should be gun control—Tom Clements puts it well. Call in the focus group. (Did the location of your N° 1, worst shooting get lost along the way? Las Vegas, right?)