I’m going to begin this story by asking you to imagine that you are a new parent. You and your wife or husband or significant other had a baby in the hospital and took the infant home with you. You’ve done all the right physical things – you’ve got a new-fangled crib that is certified safe for infants. Nothing your baby does in that crib can cause the baby to hurt himself or herself. You’ve got all the baby blankets, and colorful mobiles your friends recommended because they worked with their babies. You’ve got baby-safe washing powder to launder clothes with, so there won’t be any harsh chemical next to the baby’s skin.
Thank you for this disturbing yet poignant piece.I have a friend who says that 98% of the world’s problems are caused by organized religion and I think she may be on to something.
I read that article, and we should realize that this slogan is coming true:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."
Organized religion is responsible for more crime against and destruction of human beings that it should be outlawed as a moral failure.
I'm not surprised-because the Catholic church has been abusing children for centuries, and the Southern Baptist Conference recently found out it was not exempt from it either and in fact, helped hide the abuse as well.
I'm an atheist, the 2nd in my very devout family of Catholics going back literally centuries. My father was the first.
We figured it out. Religion is a mask for control and suppression of the human spirit
I've quit using the term "Catholic Church" when referring to the evil it has perpetrated in our nation. I refer to the organization as the Vatican instead. The Vatican as a nation is presently codifying its theology/ideology into our system of government through a Vatican dominated Extreme Court. Lest we forget, it's the Vatican that institutionalized pedophilia in nearly every nation on Earth.
The Vatican is a nation with ambassadors around the world including the U.S. It has its own economic system, laws, politicians and more like any other nation. If another nation had done to us what the Vatican has done we would have declared war on them.
Moreover, the Vatican and gop are nearly indistinguishable in their ideology. Both are hierarchical, undemocratic, paternalistic, misogynistic, intolerant, dogmatic, and ruled over by white and orange males.
Make no mistake. The Vatican has learned over millennia to take the long view. It's taken generations for it to finally realize its goal to make abortion illegal again in the U.S. It won't stop with abortion. I suspect that the next item on the Vatican's agenda will be to make contraception illegal again as per Thomas’ concurring opinion overturning RvW.
The Vatican will be codifying its theology into the constitution for generations to come unless voters stop it.
Calling the Catholic Church the Vatican is a good idea. I would like your thoughts on Opus Dei and it's members like Leo Leonard, who influence our government.
Six of the 7 Catholics on the SCOTUS as well as Leonard Leo are all members of ultra right, fundamentalist Vatican organizations especially Opus Dei and Knights of Malta. Scalia was a member of Opus Dei. It was from Leonard Leo's list of Federalist candidates that trump appointed 3 of the fundamentalist Catholics. Leonard Leo leads the Federalist Society and even though he's flown under the radar for decades he's considered one of the most powerful men in D.C. He's worth researching.
The New Republic has done excellent reporting on Leo and Barre Seid, the Chicago billionaire who bankrolls him. Anyone who Googles leonard leo new republic will get an excellent place to start researching.
Leo's next big project similar to his Federalist Society is Teneo. ProPublica has done an extensive expose of the organization and what its mission is. Keep Teneo on your radar.
Religion, even those that are not fascist, are always a means of social control, often division, and hate. The leadership is empowered to define morality - whether those leaders adhere to their professed rules or not. Humans are tribal by nature, and subject to being mislead. Not ‘belonging’ is too scary for many people. Well educated individuals frequently reject religion for good reason.
When I first learned about Christian Dominionism 40 or more years ago, I predicted that these ruthless and relentless fanatics would try to infiltrate and gradually take over the country. And that is precisely what they are doing. And the rest of us are sitting idly by, watching them infiltrate and destroy everything we value.
We can't fight every evil at once. Or can we? It isn't everybody that's trying to foist these cruel, primitive, authoritarian ideas and laws on us. It's the Republican Christo-Fascists. The best way I know to fight everything that's trying to spiral us toward our doom is to FIGHT TO ELECT DEMOCRATS. That's it. Put the Democrats back in control everywhere. THEN we will have allies in prevailing over the pseudo-Christian child abusers, the greedy destroyers of the climate, biosphere, and species diversity, the haters of all humanity except white "Christian" straight cis-gender authoritarians, and those who are working hard to destroy our democracy so that all of the above can gain total control. We can abhor the individual problems, but the fastest, most effective way to fix them is to ELECT DEMOCRATS EVERYWHERE. Donate what you can afford. Write voter postcards as much as you can. Join phone banks. Make sure your like-minded family and friends VOTE VOTE VOTE!
I think we make a mistake by referring to these primitive knuckle-draggers as ‘Christian”. They are authoritarians who want nothing to do with democracy, or an inclusive religion that has ‘love they neighbor as thyself’ as its core principle. Allowing them to hijack Christian status is a severe insult to real Christians.
My other point is that this is not just a rejection of the principles of our Nation’s founding. It is a rejection of Enlightenment ones as well. It seems some want to return to the Middle Ages.
"Seems" is too kind. In his leaked opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, "Justice" Alito invoked the 17th-century English jurist, Sir Matthew Hale, "whose misogyny stood out even in his time," according to this ProPublica story: https://www.propublica.org/article/abortion-roe-wade-alito-scotus-hale
You're correct that these people have hijacked the term "Christian." Perhaps referring to them as so-called Christians or Christian fundamentalists would be more accurate.
Yeah. I just pointed out elsewhere that all the quotes from the "Gospel-Driven Parenting Seminar" piece at the head of Lucian's column come from Proverbs, which is in the Old Testament. IOW it is not "gospel" in any sense of the word. It has no connection to Jesus.
Come to think of it, "Gospel-Driven Parenting" seems to cast parents -- especially, I'm guessing, fathers -- in the role of the Old Testament Jehovah at his worst.
Who are the “real” Christians? Has anyone in any organized manner ever adhered to the principles expressed (purportedly) by the person known as Christ?
I came of political age when Dorothy Day, co-founder of the Catholic Workers Movement; Martin Luther King Jr., Dan and Phil Berrigan, William Sloane Coffin, and many others were alive and active in the struggle against the Vietnam War and for social justice. All were rooted in organized, religious-based movements. The Friends (Quakers) and the Unitarians were also on the front lines of just about every progressive movement then (and now!). And without the Black Church, I'm not sure there would have been a civil rights movement.
I underwent the type of schooling described here, but in an actual parochial Lutheran school. My parents were not brutal like described, but we were so spanked a few times. Aside from that, it was a fundamentalist education. I learned about the 6000-year-old earth. This cannot suffice as education today in the eyes of the government. It cannot be supported with tax dollars.
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
Beaten and abused children grow up to be beaters and abusers. It will be enlightening to see how many of these home schooled Christian kids become AR-15 carrying mass murderers.
Not categorically true! Many beaten and abused children grow up to be cognizant of the wrongness of how they were raised and they choose to live a life contradictive to the way they were raised. The public seldom knows this. I speak from personal experience.
Alongside the material Lucian writes about here, the Post ran a long piece about indoctrinated "Christian" home-schooled parents of three or four youngsters. The parents had been taught that public schools are evil places, so were homeschooling their kids. But the mother finds herself unable to perform the expected child abuse and the light begins to break through. They fearfully enroll a younger daughter in a public school. The piece https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/ is an in-depth account of one family's quite thrilling self-emancipation from that perverted form of "Christianity."
I had read that also and thought to myself that this couple defied their own parents by placing their kids in public school where they thrived. It really was quite a revelation for them to discover that the schools offered so much to them and their children.
Statistics probably do not exist. The truth lies in the number of abused children who defy the standards of how they were raised. They live a non-descript life, raising families in healthy environments. Many victims of child abuse proceed with life without contributing to any statistical surveys.
I did a little research on studies that have been conducted and tried to account for any bias. These days self serving bias must be considered. Some research shows that parents who were abused as children are six times more likely to abuse their children compared to parents who were not victims. There is a wide variance. Most indicate that the risk is greater for children of parents who were abused. Gross generalizations are not useful as our politics show. Individuals can most certainly overcome challenging pasts. Each one of us can cite examples on both sides of the issue.
I've seen it happen: A severely beaten little boy (about a father's PTSD, not religion) grew into productive manhood, a model father to two girls who became model mothers.
The whole concept of ownership and benevolent abuse are so abhorrent that it is very hard to put my head around it. I suppose this confusion could be beaten out of me...after I spit out the bad taste in my mouth about the whole Christian soldier thing. Eeeeewwwwwww!
In second grade I went to the bathroom at recess and missed the bell to return to class. When I got to class my teacher humiliated me by shaking me until I almost fell to the floor when she let go of me. I never forgot that incident. I was quiet and obedient, not rowdy or disruptive but she had taught four of my brothers before me and was making an example of me. She had never had children of her own. I never trusted my teachers after that.
I'm a retired teacher, and I'm appalled that any teacher would treat a child this way. But unfortunately some people get into the profession who should never be there. I was also a quiet and obedient little child. An experience like that would have completely rattled me and left a permanent emotional scar.
“The use of the rod is for the purpose of breaking the child’s will.” And when that kid grows up you have ... a servant! What crap. I think if one needed a license to have children, the Bible bunch would be out of luck. Sometimes The Good Book is just something to hide behind, or in Trump’s case, hold upside down.
BatShitCrazy! How can a parent do this to their own flesh and blood? This is evil not Christianity. I can’t say I never disciplined my daughter but not as a baby or toddler. Now I understand why so many children run away from [home].
If you want more info on extreme homeschooling, I recommend R.L. Stollar, a formerly homeschooled person, who now advocates for child protection and child liberation. Twitter handle @RLStollar.
I have read about these abusive practices. I lived a childhood of abuse, not in any way relevant to some religious or other indoctrination. Except the unspoken rule that our father owned his wife and four daughters, to do with as he pleased. To beat and sexually abuse as he pleased. And the community standards insinuated that what happens within the family, stays within the family. I struggle constantly about such situations, behind the closed doors of too many families. Unfortunately, the religious leaders and the heads of households are usually men. I admire the community of women in an African territory who built their own community for women and children only. Look it up. It is a heartwarming endeavor.
That statement is not accurate. I'll agree that the ratio is not good, but abuser priests have been sent to the slammer. Perhaps what you're thinking of are the abuser priests who are discovered and then sent to *another* parish.
Not as many as we would like, but the ones that are tried and sent away are a source of great consternation to the diocese. And there's lots of publicity ...
Thank you for this disturbing yet poignant piece.I have a friend who says that 98% of the world’s problems are caused by organized religion and I think she may be on to something.
99 and 44/100ths.
"Amen"
I’m not so sure about the 44/100ths 🤷♂️
touche
When in college, eons ago, I realized that organized religions we’re responsible for the majority of wars
Gads I hate when I write were, it often comes up we’re!
Those 3 dots next to "reply" are an edit function on most devices.
Dear Autocorrect,
I did not mean duck or truck. Love, me.
Don’t have edit on my phone
Me either. Doesn’t work with some iPhones.
Phone too old, I guess
auto-correct?
Yup
And usually don’t notice til too late!
Its obvious
99%
I read that article, and we should realize that this slogan is coming true:
"When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in a flag and carrying a cross."
Organized religion is responsible for more crime against and destruction of human beings that it should be outlawed as a moral failure.
I'm not surprised-because the Catholic church has been abusing children for centuries, and the Southern Baptist Conference recently found out it was not exempt from it either and in fact, helped hide the abuse as well.
I'm an atheist, the 2nd in my very devout family of Catholics going back literally centuries. My father was the first.
We figured it out. Religion is a mask for control and suppression of the human spirit
I've quit using the term "Catholic Church" when referring to the evil it has perpetrated in our nation. I refer to the organization as the Vatican instead. The Vatican as a nation is presently codifying its theology/ideology into our system of government through a Vatican dominated Extreme Court. Lest we forget, it's the Vatican that institutionalized pedophilia in nearly every nation on Earth.
The Vatican is a nation with ambassadors around the world including the U.S. It has its own economic system, laws, politicians and more like any other nation. If another nation had done to us what the Vatican has done we would have declared war on them.
Moreover, the Vatican and gop are nearly indistinguishable in their ideology. Both are hierarchical, undemocratic, paternalistic, misogynistic, intolerant, dogmatic, and ruled over by white and orange males.
Make no mistake. The Vatican has learned over millennia to take the long view. It's taken generations for it to finally realize its goal to make abortion illegal again in the U.S. It won't stop with abortion. I suspect that the next item on the Vatican's agenda will be to make contraception illegal again as per Thomas’ concurring opinion overturning RvW.
The Vatican will be codifying its theology into the constitution for generations to come unless voters stop it.
Calling the Catholic Church the Vatican is a good idea. I would like your thoughts on Opus Dei and it's members like Leo Leonard, who influence our government.
Six of the 7 Catholics on the SCOTUS as well as Leonard Leo are all members of ultra right, fundamentalist Vatican organizations especially Opus Dei and Knights of Malta. Scalia was a member of Opus Dei. It was from Leonard Leo's list of Federalist candidates that trump appointed 3 of the fundamentalist Catholics. Leonard Leo leads the Federalist Society and even though he's flown under the radar for decades he's considered one of the most powerful men in D.C. He's worth researching.
The New Republic has done excellent reporting on Leo and Barre Seid, the Chicago billionaire who bankrolls him. Anyone who Googles leonard leo new republic will get an excellent place to start researching.
Leo's next big project similar to his Federalist Society is Teneo. ProPublica has done an extensive expose of the organization and what its mission is. Keep Teneo on your radar.
A shout-out to ProPublica, which is doing great in-depth investigative reporting on several fronts.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teneo
Sheldon Whitehouse and his team are doing deep dives into the life of Leo. They’re finding pretty dirty things.
Religion, even those that are not fascist, are always a means of social control, often division, and hate. The leadership is empowered to define morality - whether those leaders adhere to their professed rules or not. Humans are tribal by nature, and subject to being mislead. Not ‘belonging’ is too scary for many people. Well educated individuals frequently reject religion for good reason.
You can add the Latter-Day Saints (Mormons) to that list of known sanctioners of abuse.
The Catholic church is a predatory institution.
When I first learned about Christian Dominionism 40 or more years ago, I predicted that these ruthless and relentless fanatics would try to infiltrate and gradually take over the country. And that is precisely what they are doing. And the rest of us are sitting idly by, watching them infiltrate and destroy everything we value.
We can't fight every evil at once. Or can we? It isn't everybody that's trying to foist these cruel, primitive, authoritarian ideas and laws on us. It's the Republican Christo-Fascists. The best way I know to fight everything that's trying to spiral us toward our doom is to FIGHT TO ELECT DEMOCRATS. That's it. Put the Democrats back in control everywhere. THEN we will have allies in prevailing over the pseudo-Christian child abusers, the greedy destroyers of the climate, biosphere, and species diversity, the haters of all humanity except white "Christian" straight cis-gender authoritarians, and those who are working hard to destroy our democracy so that all of the above can gain total control. We can abhor the individual problems, but the fastest, most effective way to fix them is to ELECT DEMOCRATS EVERYWHERE. Donate what you can afford. Write voter postcards as much as you can. Join phone banks. Make sure your like-minded family and friends VOTE VOTE VOTE!
I think we make a mistake by referring to these primitive knuckle-draggers as ‘Christian”. They are authoritarians who want nothing to do with democracy, or an inclusive religion that has ‘love they neighbor as thyself’ as its core principle. Allowing them to hijack Christian status is a severe insult to real Christians.
My other point is that this is not just a rejection of the principles of our Nation’s founding. It is a rejection of Enlightenment ones as well. It seems some want to return to the Middle Ages.
"Seems" is too kind. In his leaked opinion overturning Roe v. Wade, "Justice" Alito invoked the 17th-century English jurist, Sir Matthew Hale, "whose misogyny stood out even in his time," according to this ProPublica story: https://www.propublica.org/article/abortion-roe-wade-alito-scotus-hale
You're correct that these people have hijacked the term "Christian." Perhaps referring to them as so-called Christians or Christian fundamentalists would be more accurate.
Even that might be going too far. "Patriarchal fundamentalists" might do it, though.
Yeah. I just pointed out elsewhere that all the quotes from the "Gospel-Driven Parenting Seminar" piece at the head of Lucian's column come from Proverbs, which is in the Old Testament. IOW it is not "gospel" in any sense of the word. It has no connection to Jesus.
Come to think of it, "Gospel-Driven Parenting" seems to cast parents -- especially, I'm guessing, fathers -- in the role of the Old Testament Jehovah at his worst.
Who are the “real” Christians? Has anyone in any organized manner ever adhered to the principles expressed (purportedly) by the person known as Christ?
I came of political age when Dorothy Day, co-founder of the Catholic Workers Movement; Martin Luther King Jr., Dan and Phil Berrigan, William Sloane Coffin, and many others were alive and active in the struggle against the Vietnam War and for social justice. All were rooted in organized, religious-based movements. The Friends (Quakers) and the Unitarians were also on the front lines of just about every progressive movement then (and now!). And without the Black Church, I'm not sure there would have been a civil rights movement.
I underwent the type of schooling described here, but in an actual parochial Lutheran school. My parents were not brutal like described, but we were so spanked a few times. Aside from that, it was a fundamentalist education. I learned about the 6000-year-old earth. This cannot suffice as education today in the eyes of the government. It cannot be supported with tax dollars.
It's "suffer the little children to come unto me," not "make the little children suffer."
"Mark my word, if and when these preachers get control of the [Republican] party, and they're sure trying to do so, it's going to be a terrible damn problem. Frankly, these people frighten me. Politics and governing demand compromise. But these Christians believe they are acting in the name of God, so they can't and won't compromise. I know, I've tried to deal with them."
-Barry Goldwater
They aren’t Christian.
Definitely not the Christians I learned about in Sunday School
Thanks Greg.
Elmer Gantry
Beaten and abused children grow up to be beaters and abusers. It will be enlightening to see how many of these home schooled Christian kids become AR-15 carrying mass murderers.
Not categorically true! Many beaten and abused children grow up to be cognizant of the wrongness of how they were raised and they choose to live a life contradictive to the way they were raised. The public seldom knows this. I speak from personal experience.
Alongside the material Lucian writes about here, the Post ran a long piece about indoctrinated "Christian" home-schooled parents of three or four youngsters. The parents had been taught that public schools are evil places, so were homeschooling their kids. But the mother finds herself unable to perform the expected child abuse and the light begins to break through. They fearfully enroll a younger daughter in a public school. The piece https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/interactive/2023/christian-home-schoolers-revolt/ is an in-depth account of one family's quite thrilling self-emancipation from that perverted form of "Christianity."
I had read that also and thought to myself that this couple defied their own parents by placing their kids in public school where they thrived. It really was quite a revelation for them to discover that the schools offered so much to them and their children.
Was a good article
I read that article. Very enlightening and inspiring.
Read it already. Great story, and encouraging.
I’ve witnessed that.
A fair response. I am not sure of the precise correlation. I am sure statistics exist.
Statistics probably do not exist. The truth lies in the number of abused children who defy the standards of how they were raised. They live a non-descript life, raising families in healthy environments. Many victims of child abuse proceed with life without contributing to any statistical surveys.
I did a little research on studies that have been conducted and tried to account for any bias. These days self serving bias must be considered. Some research shows that parents who were abused as children are six times more likely to abuse their children compared to parents who were not victims. There is a wide variance. Most indicate that the risk is greater for children of parents who were abused. Gross generalizations are not useful as our politics show. Individuals can most certainly overcome challenging pasts. Each one of us can cite examples on both sides of the issue.
I've seen it happen: A severely beaten little boy (about a father's PTSD, not religion) grew into productive manhood, a model father to two girls who became model mothers.
Like father/mother...like son/daughter. So so sad!
Hope I am not around to witness that happening. We’ve got to stop the ones who have these weapons already!
The whole concept of ownership and benevolent abuse are so abhorrent that it is very hard to put my head around it. I suppose this confusion could be beaten out of me...after I spit out the bad taste in my mouth about the whole Christian soldier thing. Eeeeewwwwwww!
I have a friend who calls himself a "recovering Catholic".
Afetr 16 years of Catholic school, all girls from grade 6 through college, I’m way beyond recovering and full on into a 12 step program!
Except they never recover
In second grade I went to the bathroom at recess and missed the bell to return to class. When I got to class my teacher humiliated me by shaking me until I almost fell to the floor when she let go of me. I never forgot that incident. I was quiet and obedient, not rowdy or disruptive but she had taught four of my brothers before me and was making an example of me. She had never had children of her own. I never trusted my teachers after that.
That isn't a teacher. That is an abuser.
That was in 1957 and people didn’t talk about abuse then. But you are correct. I felt abused.
I’m so sorry that happened to you.
Thank you.
I'm a retired teacher, and I'm appalled that any teacher would treat a child this way. But unfortunately some people get into the profession who should never be there. I was also a quiet and obedient little child. An experience like that would have completely rattled me and left a permanent emotional scar.
It made me quieter and made me strive to not call attention to myself. Thank you for your empathy.
So sorry you had to experience tat
Thank you!
“The use of the rod is for the purpose of breaking the child’s will.” And when that kid grows up you have ... a servant! What crap. I think if one needed a license to have children, the Bible bunch would be out of luck. Sometimes The Good Book is just something to hide behind, or in Trump’s case, hold upside down.
I read that article and was appalled. What is wrong with people that they think child abuse is ok?
BatShitCrazy! How can a parent do this to their own flesh and blood? This is evil not Christianity. I can’t say I never disciplined my daughter but not as a baby or toddler. Now I understand why so many children run away from [home].
lighthouses are more useful than churches. - b. franklin.
And they don't promote guilt.
If you want more info on extreme homeschooling, I recommend R.L. Stollar, a formerly homeschooled person, who now advocates for child protection and child liberation. Twitter handle @RLStollar.
And this doesn’t even touch on the crazy Christians who believe they own their wives and treat them accordingly.
I have read about these abusive practices. I lived a childhood of abuse, not in any way relevant to some religious or other indoctrination. Except the unspoken rule that our father owned his wife and four daughters, to do with as he pleased. To beat and sexually abuse as he pleased. And the community standards insinuated that what happens within the family, stays within the family. I struggle constantly about such situations, behind the closed doors of too many families. Unfortunately, the religious leaders and the heads of households are usually men. I admire the community of women in an African territory who built their own community for women and children only. Look it up. It is a heartwarming endeavor.
Why is it legal to publish a book that promotes child abuse?
Because ... it parades around as "religion?"
I agree. I never understood why the clergy involved in the child abuse scandals did not serve time in prison. It's mindboggling to me.
That statement is not accurate. I'll agree that the ratio is not good, but abuser priests have been sent to the slammer. Perhaps what you're thinking of are the abuser priests who are discovered and then sent to *another* parish.
I didn't know that any of the priests were incarcerated. Thank you for that info.
Not as many as we would like, but the ones that are tried and sent away are a source of great consternation to the diocese. And there's lots of publicity ...