Two months to the day after Yevgeny Prigozhin led elements of his Wagner Group mercenaries in an abortive mutiny against the reign of Vladimir Putin, an Embraer Legacy 600 business jet said to be owned by the Wagner Group and carrying its leader fell smoking out of the skies above the city of Tver, about 100 miles northwest of Moscow. The photo above, which was posted this afternoon on a Russian channel of the Telegram social media site, is said to show the Embraer jet tumbling and smoking through the air. The jet is the tiny white dot to the lower right of this screen-capture from the video. Also shown is what appears to be a scrap of contrail on the left side of the photo that could have been left by an anti-aircraft missile. Such weapons, fired from the ground, sometimes emit a burst of smoke from their engines just after the rocket burn cuts off. The rocket is then controlled by its guidance system to the target. The shape of the missile contrail, if that is in fact what it is, appears to show that the missile was fired from the ground close to the path of the Embraer jet passing overhead, suggesting that it could have been a shoulder-fired anti-aircraft missile stationed below the flight path that would have been filed with aircraft controllers before the jet took off from Moscow. Russian air controllers, like those in the United States and most other nations, work for the government.
When I saw the headline I started waiting for your next posting. The detachment with which you chronicle these kinds of events always skews both tactically and sardonically. Appreciated. I meant to thank you for the in service on how drones have replaced commandos seeking intelligence in warfare from a previous post. Always worthwhile educating us, at least me. Thank you
But I bet you were waiting, in a way. Nothing at all surprising about this. The only question since Prigozhin's march on Moscow was when, where and how.
And why not? It will gladden Putin's heart no end to watch the end of that particular 'frenemy', even if he was the one who gave the orders to shoot the plane down. In fact I rather think he's gloating about this whole thing:
"You stupid SOB, you thought I would just forgive and forget? You poor stupid dead bastard, you never trust anyone besides yourself..and even then only half."
my own take on it...but it makes a lot more sense to have waited while assessing the extent of whomever was inclined to "mutiny."
if I say that it takes a little bit of a stretch for me to think like a sociopath, am I flattering myself?
in any event, this was the least surprising development in world politics for the last year or so. right out of the Stalin playbook, but if it still works, there's no reason to tweak.
"If I say that it takes a little bit of a stretch for me to think like a sociopath, am I flattering myself?"
^^^^^ The predicate for a discussion of ethics (of course, "sociopath" bleeds over into ethical issues immediately), but also questions connected to disambiguating "justifiable self-esteem," from "reflexive confidence in any and all of one's self-assessments," arguably the former is healthy as can be, the second is Trump and every other malignant narcissist's default system of reckoning!
There's also the immediate path into paradoxes: if you temporarily make a conscious effort to project your own non-sociopathic p.o.v. "into" - spatial metaphors are unavoidable for this - the sensorium, the consciousness, of a sociopath, how much does your own habitual repulsion for sociopathy hinder any useful insights, and further, is it dangerous and if it is dangerous, how dangerous?
It's bizarre, but in seeking that infamously ambiguous Nietzsche quotation from Beyond Good and Evil I blundered into a Meta Instagram whatever-other-useless site connected "Stack" something - probably already an insidious attempt to mimic Substack - and OF COURSE they make it difficult to easily delete the account by spewing out "Something Went Wrong!" messages...
Anyway, David, here's that quote - you're familiar with it, I just wanted to round this reply off with it -
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
Btw some of the answers on that "Meta" site looked like they were posted by, guess what, SOCIOPATHS, there's a shocker - so easily is Nietzsche's quotation wrenched out of context, becoming part of an ever more bogus "Superman" as "Egocentric Sociopath" travesty!
Nietzsche's paramount concern was "Nihilism" with a CAPITAL N, I saw only one out of around a dozen interpretations on there that emphasized that concern of his at all, which was the motivation, the blundering step, into creating any account there at all.
It seems that Putin's favorite thing is something something about heights, sometimes great heights, sometimes less. This seems to be his evolved favorite way of murdering. But Prigozhin, a brute and a monster as well. He doesn't seem to have had the same paranoia issues Putin has. There is absolutely no one with at least two IQ points who doesn't believe this is another Putin move.
Is it absolutely confirmed that Prigozhin was on the plane? I thought from what I heard at first, that although Prigozhin's name was on the passenger manifest, it wasn't necessarily confirmed that he boarded the plane. And why was he in Russia anyway? You would think that if he had a safe haven, he would have remained there. Not that Belarus was "safe"...merely safe-ER.
I don't know about you all, but I'm a liberal who knows how to shoot back. The problem is, we'll one of many, is that MAGATs are stock piling weapons and most of us probably are not.
This was not surprising, but one wonders why Prigozhin was willing to get on a plane at all. Didn’t he suspect this might be his ultimate end? The rest of us did.
I guess he - in a typically Russian posture - was more or less resigned - and therefore relished somewhat his inevitable fate following his stand against putin.
I was skeptical about this mutiny against Putin. I thought it was some Putin chess move, some nonsense because Yevgeny Prigozhin was still alive. With Prigozhin now dead, I can now see that Putin must feel under serious threat from within Russia. I think his days are nearing an end.
Old school Putin is really a Stalinist at heart. There is a very good chance that we will see much more Stalin-type moves: assassinations, show trials, mass imprisonment for "Sabotage", etc.
Will the Russian people allow such times to come back? History tells us that they will.
On Amazon Prime Video, watch the last few minutes of "Our Kind of Traitor," from a John LeCarre novel about a Russian money launderer. He definitely knows the helicopter taking him to freedom won't make it.
It would appear they’ve run out of poison-tipped umbrellas in Putin’s Russia. And it occurs to me that Trump, as well, has his own plane ... and “joked” about fleeing to Russia, but ... nah ...
Even famously "stable (non) genius" Trump has enough survival instincts to know better than to flee to Russia. Trump is absolutely no use to Putin if he isn't President; Trump would go into withdrawal from lack of media attention and the adoring rally applause from his cult fans and lastly, Trump wouldn't be surrounded by purchased security; Putin could dribble poison into Trumpy's coke can any time he pleased.
Joe Biden is a remarkably patient guy, with an unbelievable capacity to suffer fools gladly. A good reason for him to be president instead of me. However, if it can penetrate the antidepressant aura, Elon Musk might look at this and wonder about what happens when someone's reach extends too far.
Pretty reasonable scenario for how the Embraer jet was destroyed. I think Putin wants everyone to suspect, but not know with certainty, that he ordered the shoot down. It is a warning to anyone else who is thinking of crossing Putin. And this is why he has poisoned several dissidents.
Absolutely agree. Putin is making a power statement that he does not and will not countenance betrayal. In case anyone or any country has any doubt. And there are no consequences.
When I saw the headline I started waiting for your next posting. The detachment with which you chronicle these kinds of events always skews both tactically and sardonically. Appreciated. I meant to thank you for the in service on how drones have replaced commandos seeking intelligence in warfare from a previous post. Always worthwhile educating us, at least me. Thank you
I’m surprised only that it didn’t happen sooner.
But I bet you were waiting, in a way. Nothing at all surprising about this. The only question since Prigozhin's march on Moscow was when, where and how.
Yes, and precisely.
Putin probably got off on watching Prigozhin twist slowly in the wind, knowing what was coming, just not how or when.
You bet he did. Convenient, wasn't it, that someone caught most of the shootdown on tape.
In spycraft, no coincidences.
And why not? It will gladden Putin's heart no end to watch the end of that particular 'frenemy', even if he was the one who gave the orders to shoot the plane down. In fact I rather think he's gloating about this whole thing:
"You stupid SOB, you thought I would just forgive and forget? You poor stupid dead bastard, you never trust anyone besides yourself..and even then only half."
I "wondered" about that myself.
my own take on it...but it makes a lot more sense to have waited while assessing the extent of whomever was inclined to "mutiny."
if I say that it takes a little bit of a stretch for me to think like a sociopath, am I flattering myself?
in any event, this was the least surprising development in world politics for the last year or so. right out of the Stalin playbook, but if it still works, there's no reason to tweak.
"If I say that it takes a little bit of a stretch for me to think like a sociopath, am I flattering myself?"
^^^^^ The predicate for a discussion of ethics (of course, "sociopath" bleeds over into ethical issues immediately), but also questions connected to disambiguating "justifiable self-esteem," from "reflexive confidence in any and all of one's self-assessments," arguably the former is healthy as can be, the second is Trump and every other malignant narcissist's default system of reckoning!
There's also the immediate path into paradoxes: if you temporarily make a conscious effort to project your own non-sociopathic p.o.v. "into" - spatial metaphors are unavoidable for this - the sensorium, the consciousness, of a sociopath, how much does your own habitual repulsion for sociopathy hinder any useful insights, and further, is it dangerous and if it is dangerous, how dangerous?
It's bizarre, but in seeking that infamously ambiguous Nietzsche quotation from Beyond Good and Evil I blundered into a Meta Instagram whatever-other-useless site connected "Stack" something - probably already an insidious attempt to mimic Substack - and OF COURSE they make it difficult to easily delete the account by spewing out "Something Went Wrong!" messages...
Anyway, David, here's that quote - you're familiar with it, I just wanted to round this reply off with it -
“Whoever fights monsters should see to it that in the process he does not become a monster. And if you gaze long enough into an abyss, the abyss will gaze back into you.”
Friedrich Nietzsche
Btw some of the answers on that "Meta" site looked like they were posted by, guess what, SOCIOPATHS, there's a shocker - so easily is Nietzsche's quotation wrenched out of context, becoming part of an ever more bogus "Superman" as "Egocentric Sociopath" travesty!
Nietzsche's paramount concern was "Nihilism" with a CAPITAL N, I saw only one out of around a dozen interpretations on there that emphasized that concern of his at all, which was the motivation, the blundering step, into creating any account there at all.
Live and learn, maybe!
It seems that Putin's favorite thing is something something about heights, sometimes great heights, sometimes less. This seems to be his evolved favorite way of murdering. But Prigozhin, a brute and a monster as well. He doesn't seem to have had the same paranoia issues Putin has. There is absolutely no one with at least two IQ points who doesn't believe this is another Putin move.
Not sure Putin likes poison any less these days, but it's not always practical.
This psychological understanding of putin's brilliant!
I don't believe Prigozhin had any illusions about his fate.
Is it absolutely confirmed that Prigozhin was on the plane? I thought from what I heard at first, that although Prigozhin's name was on the passenger manifest, it wasn't necessarily confirmed that he boarded the plane. And why was he in Russia anyway? You would think that if he had a safe haven, he would have remained there. Not that Belarus was "safe"...merely safe-ER.
Something Trump can only dream of doing.
If Trump’s coup had succeeded, who knows how many of his adversaries would have ‘disappeared.’
Hope he doesn't win again in 2024 or we are doomed!
I don't know about you all, but I'm a liberal who knows how to shoot back. The problem is, we'll one of many, is that MAGATs are stock piling weapons and most of us probably are not.
I’m a progressive since I was 12 years old and I am now a retired baby boomer in New York City!
We need to get out the vote on every single level so there is a landslide!
I hope the firmer president is put in jail so he knows how the other people live!
I have a nail file!
Thanks be to God.
So far. He's having another go at us.
I have been thinking along these lines. I have also been fantasizing the possible fantasies of Trump's Republican challengers.
This was not surprising, but one wonders why Prigozhin was willing to get on a plane at all. Didn’t he suspect this might be his ultimate end? The rest of us did.
I guess he - in a typically Russian posture - was more or less resigned - and therefore relished somewhat his inevitable fate following his stand against putin.
For some, there are things worse than death.
Maybe better than an inevitable long and painful death from poison...
Perhaps he felt invincible after all his ‘accomplishments.’ But he didn’t know Putin as well as he thought he did.
Russian hubris? Or stupidity, thinking (like Trump) that Putin was his friend.
Oh I don’t think he willingly hopped on that plane...bound and gagged maybe.
They should’ve taken the train to Saint Petersburg
SAM accidentally placed in Jet flight path.
SAM accidentally aimed at Jet.
SAM accidentally acquires Jet as a target.
SAM fire control accidentally engaged.
Yep, just another damn SAM accident!
Oops!
Don't ya just hate when that happens?
I was skeptical about this mutiny against Putin. I thought it was some Putin chess move, some nonsense because Yevgeny Prigozhin was still alive. With Prigozhin now dead, I can now see that Putin must feel under serious threat from within Russia. I think his days are nearing an end.
P.S.
Old school Putin is really a Stalinist at heart. There is a very good chance that we will see much more Stalin-type moves: assassinations, show trials, mass imprisonment for "Sabotage", etc.
Will the Russian people allow such times to come back? History tells us that they will.
Stalin died alone lying in his own sh|t. No one wanted to help him once he was finally down. They hated him.
Maybe putin and trump will both go the way of Mussolini.
Wishing...
I'd like to see trump upside down and played like a piñata
I hope you are right!
On Amazon Prime Video, watch the last few minutes of "Our Kind of Traitor," from a John LeCarre novel about a Russian money launderer. He definitely knows the helicopter taking him to freedom won't make it.
Well we knew Vladimir would sooner or later cook and eat his own Chef.
I'm a little suprised that Yevgeny publicly got on an aircraft.
Willingly?
Bedides the Russia/Ukraine situation i wonder how the Wagner group will shake out or shape up in Putins adventures around the planet.
Someone on the news said, maybe he was dead already when he got on the aircraft!
That would a strong possibility
Gotta wonder, too, why somebody just happened to videotape the jet’s destruction.
Lucky guess that the plane was going down, where and when. 🤔
Because a video is quite useful in cowing any remaining "wanna-try-a-revolt" Russian oligarchs.
Good point! Guess they wanted to make sure it actually happened.
All your money won't another minute buy.
It would appear they’ve run out of poison-tipped umbrellas in Putin’s Russia. And it occurs to me that Trump, as well, has his own plane ... and “joked” about fleeing to Russia, but ... nah ...
We could never be that lucky.
My sentiment exactly.
Even famously "stable (non) genius" Trump has enough survival instincts to know better than to flee to Russia. Trump is absolutely no use to Putin if he isn't President; Trump would go into withdrawal from lack of media attention and the adoring rally applause from his cult fans and lastly, Trump wouldn't be surrounded by purchased security; Putin could dribble poison into Trumpy's coke can any time he pleased.
I'd like to see what Putin would do to trump in Russia. I think putin thinks trump is an idiot.
Putie isn't wrong about Trump's idiocy...but he might be underestimating Trump's cowardice and survival instincts.
Unlikely, because only a few days ago the jerk said he was "the apple of Putin's eye."
Putin owes him a lot.
Margo, I think putin knows trump is an idiot. And he don't feel he owes anyone anything. My view.
A useful idiot.
Not useful any more. Still an idiot, however.
Adolf Putin and the 3rd Reich share many values of the Nazi Evil Empire. Sicko Putin wants to rule the world.
Hitler had to shoot himself. Maybe putin will need to do the same.
He and Drumpf will have to have the cage match for that title!
Back in the U.S.S.R.
When we sang it, it seemed so innocuous.
So true!
Joe Biden is a remarkably patient guy, with an unbelievable capacity to suffer fools gladly. A good reason for him to be president instead of me. However, if it can penetrate the antidepressant aura, Elon Musk might look at this and wonder about what happens when someone's reach extends too far.
Pretty reasonable scenario for how the Embraer jet was destroyed. I think Putin wants everyone to suspect, but not know with certainty, that he ordered the shoot down. It is a warning to anyone else who is thinking of crossing Putin. And this is why he has poisoned several dissidents.
I doubt he's concerned about concealing his initiative here. He wants everyone to know.
Lovely - seriously - that one might believe otherwise.
Absolutely agree. Putin is making a power statement that he does not and will not countenance betrayal. In case anyone or any country has any doubt. And there are no consequences.