Note we are now speculating on the reasons why Trump acted the way he did, not on what he did.
Sort of like when a mass murderer kills 53 citizens at a rock concert we spend all our time trying to determine "WHY" he did it, leaving the carnage to take second place.
I spent two years in the military and handled a few, very few, SECRET documents. I would no more have thought of taking them home our outside the office than putting a loaded gun in my two year old's crib. You were taught the value and necessity of classification.
He is , per se, guilty of a crime. All this dancing around to justify or explain it misses the point. Donald Trump is not just a child he is a criminal. Why he is will take a lot of therapy and in depth sessions with a shrink. Maybe they can give him one when he is serving his sentence.
It's part and parcel of the entire view. Donald Trump has always acted in his own best interests and this is really no different, except that it happens to concern national security.
I want to know if and where those documents were going, were and how they got there and who put them there.
We all deserve some answers about this, because that's what we pay the government to do-uphold the law. Donald Trump broke the law, fine-I want to know how it has affected our national security and if he should be put in prison or a gallows.
I am ALL for the gallows! Just like the convicted Nazis at Nuremberg…. One traitor right after another, starting with t-Rump. I am fairly queasy, but that is one execution I would relish watching!
Substack has a weird heart. ;-) I heart something, the heart doesn't change -- but when I refresh the page, often there it is. Ours is not to wonder why . . .
I agree. Even NYT experts are simply guessing (with a lot of background perspective---but it is still guessing). This is a diversion, a diversion----the issue to stay focused on in what he DID; the why may come out in the trial (if it happens...I hope so), but it is somewhat tangential except for intent. Guessing won't discover that!
You're right. I catch myself sometimes thinking that Trump is too psychologically impaired (that's the polite phrase) to be responsible for his actions, but that's crap. He's not insane and he's not a child, ergo he IS responsible.
At the same time, speculating about the reasons why might help prevent its happening again. Nothing is going to prevent Trump being Trump, however, so I'm more interested in the reasons why so many people let him get away with it all for so long.
Since he signed off on the search warrant, Judge Reinhart and his family have received death threats and his temple had to cancel services because of threats -- and you're wondering if he "want[s] to thwart the investigation"? Maybe, just maybe, he's weighed the public interest (and the First Amendment) against the Justice Department's request and decided that it's best if the DoJ doesn't get everything it wants. Note that he's given DoJ the opportunity to redact what it wants to redact and get the revised version to him in the coming week. I don't know what's in the affidavit, but that seems a reasonable course to take.
If the DOJ says the info release will hamper their case and offer fodder for Trump’s lawyers AND it is highly unusual to grant such a release. AND the “ public” asking for the information seems to be coming from the Republican party, it could make one wonder why the judge feels the need to grant the request.
Those death threats are terrible consequence of permitting the search. My guess is they are coming from Republican/ Trump base too. Do they know source?
DoJ, and the executive branch in general, have their own priorities and interests to protect. Those asking for the information include "multiple media organizations," so the First Amendment is involved. This is from an NPR story:
"Multiple media organizations had asked the judge to unseal all documents related to the search, notably the affidavit laying out the reasoning and research. At Thursday's hearing, the organizations said they do not want to release any information that would have a chilling effect on current or future witnesses, endanger people involved in the probe or compromise the investigation."
The judge, IOW, is doing what judges should do: weigh competing interests and come up with a decision that's consistent with the Constitution, the law, and reality on the ground. And surely the Trump administration taught us that giving DoJ whatever it wants is not the way to go?
Death threats have become a routine response to everything the Trumpers don't like. Look at what happened to Shaye Moss and "Lady Ruby" Freeman for basically doing their jobs as GA election workers. And to several of those who've testified publicly before the 1/6 committee, like Rusty Bowers in AZ (who just lost his primary for AZ state senate). Personally I think the death threats are less a "consequence of permitting the search" and much more a consequence of the unhinged rhetoric and behavior that the GOP is doing nothing to control.
Trmp has the depth of a raindrop. He kept what he wanted because he wanted it. The papers have his name in them. Doesn’t that entitle him to own them? Thanks, Lucian…
Your conclusions about why Trump wanted those documents are well-founded, and I have no doubt that most of them are based on reality, especially the one where it's been surmised that he might have been holding onto these documents for 'in-kind' payments from other countries.
Now, if we want to read between the very broad lines of that last idea, it's illegal for anyone to sell classified documents to other countries.
As a matter of fact there was a story just this week about a couple who were about to be sentenced for espionage-ah, here it is:
"The Toebbes, of Annapolis, Md., seemed to neighbors and co-workers as the typical suburban couple before they were arrested last October for allegedly scheming to sell secrets about Virginia-class nuclear submarines to a foreign country, which was not identified in court papers but was Brazil, a source told ABC News."
"The judge in the case has refused the plea deal the prosecutors offered as being too lenient on the couple and on Tuesday set a trial date of Jan. 17, 2023, giving the parties time to negotiate a new plea agreement or proceed to trial."
The country was Brazil, of all the ridiculous places, not Russia so I think Donald Trump had better be getting far better legal help than he has because it appears that being a spy or selling our most secret documents can land you in prison for a very, very long time.
And that's where Trump's headed if the DOJ has their way. I hope they redact just enough to make him sweat because there's lots of space in ADX Florence, from what I understand...
This is, without a doubt, one of the most consequential investigations in our history. The DOJ and FBI state that if this document is made public, it could impede their investigation, and would most certainly endanger lives. WHY would this judge state that the public has a right to know. If making it public would impact the case to the point that they could not prosecute, it is not worth it. This makes me so mad 😡.
No truer statement than trump breathes money, power and revenge; only the order changes depending on the immediate circumstances.
My totally uniformed speculation: He needed "nuclear secrets" that the trump organization (re: crime family) requires to broker the deal that would provide the Saudi's with the capacity to make the Sunni A-bomb. But the possibilities are as limitless as his evil imagination.
I was thinking more in terms of trump et al as the "middleman" facilitating and brokering the deal but your point is well taken. They may not need him at all.
Trump doesn't read. He likely took the classified archived documents with him because he knew the documents are valuable . . . to someone else. The Saudis have an inferiority because the don't have nukes yet and some of their neighbors do. Trump and the Saudis are close. The Saudis recently gave billions to members of the Trump clan for no rational, discernible reason. I don't like how this looks on a dot chart . . .
The question I’d like to see Trump’s defenders answer is what they think would happen to this classified information if and when Trump died. If he still had all of it and joined the choir invisible tomorrow, what would happen to it.
Now *there's* an intriguing angle, Kevin, one I haven't seen discussed. While I doubt the prenup covers state secrets, I trust Melaria to figure out a profitable way to distribute any not already sold. (Old friends from back home…?)
I really don’t understand why the judge even heard the case. Clearly any part of the affidavit is likely to reveal wItnesses identities. The last thing this case needs is witnesses having their life and their family and friends’ lives threatened by the MAGAT mob.
I'm curious. As a longtime career law clerk for a U.S. Magistrate Judge, it would seem to me that Judge Reinhart's decision could and would very likely be appealed by the government to an Article 3 Judge. If this were the case, I would think that the release of even a redacted affidavit would be delayed until a district court judge could rule on the appeal. Why is the possibility of such a delay not being spoken of in the media?
I've been busily reading things, and among those articles I've come across is this one where Trump's National Archives representative Kash Patel had planned to go into the National Archives and publish all those documents that Trump believes the American people deserve to see.
"former President Donald Trump’s associate Kash Patel “vowed to retrieve classified documents from the National Archives and publish them on his website.”
(Just Security is pretty accurate.) I think this is why the FBI pulled this-they wanted everything out of their clutches and in a secure location. Absolutely bizarre.
First, the DOJ and the FBI have not stated that he did break the law-even for this scumbag, the 'presumption of innocence' is required.
WE might think that he broke the law-and it appears so..but until there is a indictment issued, we cannot assume that he did break the law-I know giving him the benefit of a doubt is a bridge too far, but that's the American way.
My point was the law doesn't say anything about state of mind. I agree about waiting for the indictment and presumption of innocence. But any of us who did anything like this would be indicted immediately, jailed, and denied bail until trial. Why does this jackhole get kid glove treatment?
Because he has people who will terrorize anyone who dares to sully his name. That's why the insurrection happened.
He's a dangerous asshole, who is capable of inciting insurrections, even out of office. The saying is: "“Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups” George Carlin. That's as true today as it was 80 years ago.
Yes Mary. I think he is saying and believing. He can commit any crime and there will be no consequence. I am betting he has committed plenty of crimes and HAS gotten away with them. Just has not shot someone on 5 th Ave yet
Mr. Trump must realize that indictment and arrest are coming, probably after the midterms. All he has left is to whip the MAGA and the Republican caucus into a frightening frenzy that can rattle Wall Street and the federal government. The darkest part of the night is coming. If AG Garland does not take legal action, Trump might see that as an opportunity to pull a Napoleon 100-day march. Trump must not be allowed another run for the presidency; he will tear the country apart by appealing to everyman's rage.
There is an article in the Bulwark that describes Trump's belief that everything was his, including the military and they owed him alone their allegiance and loyalty.
Explains a bit more about why those items were at Mar-a-Lago.
Because Donald put himself in the most visible spot possible we are all witness to his vast, shocking and complete anti-social personality with all the bells and whistles! His sociopathy includes massive narcissistic entitlement and grandiosity, paranoia, raging whenever anyone functions separately, revenge, etc. From that standpoint, NOTHING stands separate from his aims and desires - not even classified documents. He literally does not comprehend being told that something doesn’t belong to him, like a baby being told that a toy isn’t theirs. He took these documents with him simply because he wanted them, whether that was for his ‘collection’ or with nefarious aims in mind. Because he’s pathological he will gladly use them for future criminal purposes if given the opportunity. Adam Schiff said it best in his closing argument at the first impeachment hearing, “ He has betrayed our national security, and he will do so again, He has compromised our elections, and he will do so again. You will not change him. You cannot constrain him. He is who he is. Truth matters little to him. What's right matters even less, and decency matters not at all."
Real basic Freudian interpretation. T is unrestrained ID. no superego. Warped narcissistic ego. I take what I want when I want it. Tantrums when I don’t get it. Grab women. Insult people. The list goes on. Sociopath. Send him to prison. He should have gone to reform school as a teenager
Note we are now speculating on the reasons why Trump acted the way he did, not on what he did.
Sort of like when a mass murderer kills 53 citizens at a rock concert we spend all our time trying to determine "WHY" he did it, leaving the carnage to take second place.
I spent two years in the military and handled a few, very few, SECRET documents. I would no more have thought of taking them home our outside the office than putting a loaded gun in my two year old's crib. You were taught the value and necessity of classification.
He is , per se, guilty of a crime. All this dancing around to justify or explain it misses the point. Donald Trump is not just a child he is a criminal. Why he is will take a lot of therapy and in depth sessions with a shrink. Maybe they can give him one when he is serving his sentence.
It's part and parcel of the entire view. Donald Trump has always acted in his own best interests and this is really no different, except that it happens to concern national security.
I want to know if and where those documents were going, were and how they got there and who put them there.
We all deserve some answers about this, because that's what we pay the government to do-uphold the law. Donald Trump broke the law, fine-I want to know how it has affected our national security and if he should be put in prison or a gallows.
I am ALL for the gallows! Just like the convicted Nazis at Nuremberg…. One traitor right after another, starting with t-Rump. I am fairly queasy, but that is one execution I would relish watching!
He is to big a coward to take Goering's way out, fortunately.
The heart doesn't work. I hereby "heart" your post.
Substack has a weird heart. ;-) I heart something, the heart doesn't change -- but when I refresh the page, often there it is. Ours is not to wonder why . . .
dunno if this is what it takes, but if you keep tapping it, think "tap on, tap off, tap on"
you see, you might be cancelling your heart tap otherwise.
i dunno
I agree. Even NYT experts are simply guessing (with a lot of background perspective---but it is still guessing). This is a diversion, a diversion----the issue to stay focused on in what he DID; the why may come out in the trial (if it happens...I hope so), but it is somewhat tangential except for intent. Guessing won't discover that!
concur.
altho the "why" might reveal more nefarious thing trump did or tried to do.
Yes
You're right. I catch myself sometimes thinking that Trump is too psychologically impaired (that's the polite phrase) to be responsible for his actions, but that's crap. He's not insane and he's not a child, ergo he IS responsible.
At the same time, speculating about the reasons why might help prevent its happening again. Nothing is going to prevent Trump being Trump, however, so I'm more interested in the reasons why so many people let him get away with it all for so long.
This is the bottom line. And by the way, Trump is not a candidate for insight oriented therapy…
Why is the judge ruling against the DOJ? Does he want to thwart the investigation? A Republican?
Since he signed off on the search warrant, Judge Reinhart and his family have received death threats and his temple had to cancel services because of threats -- and you're wondering if he "want[s] to thwart the investigation"? Maybe, just maybe, he's weighed the public interest (and the First Amendment) against the Justice Department's request and decided that it's best if the DoJ doesn't get everything it wants. Note that he's given DoJ the opportunity to redact what it wants to redact and get the revised version to him in the coming week. I don't know what's in the affidavit, but that seems a reasonable course to take.
If the DOJ says the info release will hamper their case and offer fodder for Trump’s lawyers AND it is highly unusual to grant such a release. AND the “ public” asking for the information seems to be coming from the Republican party, it could make one wonder why the judge feels the need to grant the request.
Those death threats are terrible consequence of permitting the search. My guess is they are coming from Republican/ Trump base too. Do they know source?
DoJ, and the executive branch in general, have their own priorities and interests to protect. Those asking for the information include "multiple media organizations," so the First Amendment is involved. This is from an NPR story:
"Multiple media organizations had asked the judge to unseal all documents related to the search, notably the affidavit laying out the reasoning and research. At Thursday's hearing, the organizations said they do not want to release any information that would have a chilling effect on current or future witnesses, endanger people involved in the probe or compromise the investigation."
The judge, IOW, is doing what judges should do: weigh competing interests and come up with a decision that's consistent with the Constitution, the law, and reality on the ground. And surely the Trump administration taught us that giving DoJ whatever it wants is not the way to go?
Death threats have become a routine response to everything the Trumpers don't like. Look at what happened to Shaye Moss and "Lady Ruby" Freeman for basically doing their jobs as GA election workers. And to several of those who've testified publicly before the 1/6 committee, like Rusty Bowers in AZ (who just lost his primary for AZ state senate). Personally I think the death threats are less a "consequence of permitting the search" and much more a consequence of the unhinged rhetoric and behavior that the GOP is doing nothing to control.
Trmp has the depth of a raindrop. He kept what he wanted because he wanted it. The papers have his name in them. Doesn’t that entitle him to own them? Thanks, Lucian…
Classic line about Trump having the depth of a raindrop! Wonderful.
Thanks! An old southernism….
Great column, as usual.
Your conclusions about why Trump wanted those documents are well-founded, and I have no doubt that most of them are based on reality, especially the one where it's been surmised that he might have been holding onto these documents for 'in-kind' payments from other countries.
Now, if we want to read between the very broad lines of that last idea, it's illegal for anyone to sell classified documents to other countries.
As a matter of fact there was a story just this week about a couple who were about to be sentenced for espionage-ah, here it is:
"The Toebbes, of Annapolis, Md., seemed to neighbors and co-workers as the typical suburban couple before they were arrested last October for allegedly scheming to sell secrets about Virginia-class nuclear submarines to a foreign country, which was not identified in court papers but was Brazil, a source told ABC News."
"The judge in the case has refused the plea deal the prosecutors offered as being too lenient on the couple and on Tuesday set a trial date of Jan. 17, 2023, giving the parties time to negotiate a new plea agreement or proceed to trial."
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/judge-rejects-plea-deals-couple-accused-sell-nuclear/story?id=88455695
The country was Brazil, of all the ridiculous places, not Russia so I think Donald Trump had better be getting far better legal help than he has because it appears that being a spy or selling our most secret documents can land you in prison for a very, very long time.
And that's where Trump's headed if the DOJ has their way. I hope they redact just enough to make him sweat because there's lots of space in ADX Florence, from what I understand...
President Bolsonaro of Brazil is a Trump clone. I was in South America in 2020, this guy parroted Trump's ignorance of COVID-19. Who knows?
This is, without a doubt, one of the most consequential investigations in our history. The DOJ and FBI state that if this document is made public, it could impede their investigation, and would most certainly endanger lives. WHY would this judge state that the public has a right to know. If making it public would impact the case to the point that they could not prosecute, it is not worth it. This makes me so mad 😡.
Same! I just don’t understand why the judge even heard this case?
Is it sad that I wondered if he was either bribed, or threatened??
Yes it is sad. That would make sense.
No truer statement than trump breathes money, power and revenge; only the order changes depending on the immediate circumstances.
My totally uniformed speculation: He needed "nuclear secrets" that the trump organization (re: crime family) requires to broker the deal that would provide the Saudi's with the capacity to make the Sunni A-bomb. But the possibilities are as limitless as his evil imagination.
The problem with that scenario is that for everything technical, the Saudis have imported their workers, the researchers and everything to do with it.
They would not have the infrastructure they do if the Americans and Germans hadn't been allowed in to set it up. Their oil paid for it, too.
I was thinking more in terms of trump et al as the "middleman" facilitating and brokering the deal but your point is well taken. They may not need him at all.
Trump doesn't read. He likely took the classified archived documents with him because he knew the documents are valuable . . . to someone else. The Saudis have an inferiority because the don't have nukes yet and some of their neighbors do. Trump and the Saudis are close. The Saudis recently gave billions to members of the Trump clan for no rational, discernible reason. I don't like how this looks on a dot chart . . .
You and me both
The question I’d like to see Trump’s defenders answer is what they think would happen to this classified information if and when Trump died. If he still had all of it and joined the choir invisible tomorrow, what would happen to it.
Would the kids inherit?
Would it go out for the Mar-a-Lago yard sale?
Now *there's* an intriguing angle, Kevin, one I haven't seen discussed. While I doubt the prenup covers state secrets, I trust Melaria to figure out a profitable way to distribute any not already sold. (Old friends from back home…?)
Maybe end up in the Trump Library...a 3 x 5 card.
“If” he died?? Lets say when
I really don’t understand why the judge even heard the case. Clearly any part of the affidavit is likely to reveal wItnesses identities. The last thing this case needs is witnesses having their life and their family and friends’ lives threatened by the MAGAT mob.
I'm curious. As a longtime career law clerk for a U.S. Magistrate Judge, it would seem to me that Judge Reinhart's decision could and would very likely be appealed by the government to an Article 3 Judge. If this were the case, I would think that the release of even a redacted affidavit would be delayed until a district court judge could rule on the appeal. Why is the possibility of such a delay not being spoken of in the media?
I've been busily reading things, and among those articles I've come across is this one where Trump's National Archives representative Kash Patel had planned to go into the National Archives and publish all those documents that Trump believes the American people deserve to see.
"former President Donald Trump’s associate Kash Patel “vowed to retrieve classified documents from the National Archives and publish them on his website.”
No shit:
https://www.justsecurity.org/82723/trump-associates-stated-plan-to-publicly-release-declassified-documents/
(Just Security is pretty accurate.) I think this is why the FBI pulled this-they wanted everything out of their clutches and in a secure location. Absolutely bizarre.
I wish the endless speculation about his motives and state of mind (such as it is) would stop.
The law is clear. He broke the law.
If you or I had taken even one document, we would be behind bars right now.
First, the DOJ and the FBI have not stated that he did break the law-even for this scumbag, the 'presumption of innocence' is required.
WE might think that he broke the law-and it appears so..but until there is a indictment issued, we cannot assume that he did break the law-I know giving him the benefit of a doubt is a bridge too far, but that's the American way.
My point was the law doesn't say anything about state of mind. I agree about waiting for the indictment and presumption of innocence. But any of us who did anything like this would be indicted immediately, jailed, and denied bail until trial. Why does this jackhole get kid glove treatment?
Because he has people who will terrorize anyone who dares to sully his name. That's why the insurrection happened.
He's a dangerous asshole, who is capable of inciting insurrections, even out of office. The saying is: "“Never Underestimate The Power Of Stupid People In Large Groups” George Carlin. That's as true today as it was 80 years ago.
So this presumption of innocence kind of validates his ‘I could shoot someone on Fifth Ave and get away with it”
Not really-Just because he's found not guilty does not mean he didn't commit a crime.
Yes Mary. I think he is saying and believing. He can commit any crime and there will be no consequence. I am betting he has committed plenty of crimes and HAS gotten away with them. Just has not shot someone on 5 th Ave yet
Mr. Trump must realize that indictment and arrest are coming, probably after the midterms. All he has left is to whip the MAGA and the Republican caucus into a frightening frenzy that can rattle Wall Street and the federal government. The darkest part of the night is coming. If AG Garland does not take legal action, Trump might see that as an opportunity to pull a Napoleon 100-day march. Trump must not be allowed another run for the presidency; he will tear the country apart by appealing to everyman's rage.
Elephant in the room indeed.
None of the information in that affidavit should be released.
There is an article in the Bulwark that describes Trump's belief that everything was his, including the military and they owed him alone their allegiance and loyalty.
Explains a bit more about why those items were at Mar-a-Lago.
https://www.thebulwark.com/trump-acted-as-though-the-military-swore-an-oath-to-him-personally/
Because Donald put himself in the most visible spot possible we are all witness to his vast, shocking and complete anti-social personality with all the bells and whistles! His sociopathy includes massive narcissistic entitlement and grandiosity, paranoia, raging whenever anyone functions separately, revenge, etc. From that standpoint, NOTHING stands separate from his aims and desires - not even classified documents. He literally does not comprehend being told that something doesn’t belong to him, like a baby being told that a toy isn’t theirs. He took these documents with him simply because he wanted them, whether that was for his ‘collection’ or with nefarious aims in mind. Because he’s pathological he will gladly use them for future criminal purposes if given the opportunity. Adam Schiff said it best in his closing argument at the first impeachment hearing, “ He has betrayed our national security, and he will do so again, He has compromised our elections, and he will do so again. You will not change him. You cannot constrain him. He is who he is. Truth matters little to him. What's right matters even less, and decency matters not at all."
Real basic Freudian interpretation. T is unrestrained ID. no superego. Warped narcissistic ego. I take what I want when I want it. Tantrums when I don’t get it. Grab women. Insult people. The list goes on. Sociopath. Send him to prison. He should have gone to reform school as a teenager
He was going to sell it.