I'm on the same page as you Lucian. I heard Mika on Morning Joe ask one of the most asinine questions I have heard her utter to date, she was talking with one of the guests and asked him where the hostages were being kept, as if they were in a pen somewhere, and I thought Joe was clueless. Those hostages are spread out all over Gaza, fin…
I'm on the same page as you Lucian. I heard Mika on Morning Joe ask one of the most asinine questions I have heard her utter to date, she was talking with one of the guests and asked him where the hostages were being kept, as if they were in a pen somewhere, and I thought Joe was clueless. Those hostages are spread out all over Gaza, finding one will be no guarantee they will be able to find any of the others, especially alive. I can see it taking years for each negotiated swap. What happened was unspeakably horrific, but the dead are dead now and beyond suffering, the captives are alive and that is now the most important problem the Israelis face. Those people are still alive, and the most important thing their government can do is secure their release. Yes they can level Gaza, they have been working on that 24-7 since Sunday, if they do that they will turn the world against them, because the number of innocent Palestinian dead will far exceed those of the Israelis. Netanyahu knows this, and is caught on the tip of his own spear, the right wants revenge, the rest of the nation wants to know “why did this happen”, he can try the former to hide from the latter, but not for long. WHY is going to be a very big question, I think he's toast. As a Green Beret I was trained in insurgency, how to conduct it as well as how to fight it. I think Hamas is in a checkmate position. If the Israelis invade, they will do so at a huge cost in lives including their own, or they can sit on the border like they are now, nasching their teeth knowing that Hamas got away with a lot of it, and that they will get the hostages back in trickles, but alive. I have no doubt that Hamas is evil incarnate, and that there will be hell to pay, but that will probably take a while to play out as it has in the past. Surely there are people in our government and Israel's who can think this through just like I did, and see that it makes sense, all of this is predicated on Hezbollah standing down and not turning Lebanon into a sea of fire. I hate the thought of relying on them doing anything sane, but maybe they are not suicidal.
Nice try, no matter what you and I and Lucian agree are the "wisest moves" here to avoid the impending Checkmate by Hamas, Israel is going to be viewing this as an existential threat they have to eliminate - possibly after a massive leaflet dropping campaign akin to the US prequel to dropping the atomic bombs, warning Hamas and alerting the entire world to intervene to help the effectively, de facto, "kidnapped" civilians of Gaza (or those who agree it is a worthy goal) those citizens who are coerced, forced under compulsion by Hamas to aid and abet a terrorist army, citizens of Gaza currently being deployed as human shields, in other words.
This is an unholy mess! There ARE no "good outcomes," only least worst resolutions.
Edit: There's a phrase from Anglo-American law that's applicable to Hamas's fiendish willingness to
refuse to release their kidnapped hostages, preferring to submit their own civilians to a blockade and cut-off of electricity, water, food:
"Punishments for contempt include imprisonment and fines. However, according to the Supreme Court, civil contempt penalties are conditional. One who is punished for civil contempt can avoid the punishment by doing as the court ordered and is therefore described as "carrying the keys of their prison in their own pocket." Punishments for criminal contempt, however, are generally unconditional and definite."
[Last updated in July of 2022 by the Wex Definitions Team]
Hamas has the jailhouse keys in their pockets all right, but why should suddenly care at all
about the universal human rights, freedom and dignity, duty of care, duty of protection of citizens
by any state's leadership?
They are...the scum of the earth. Expecting these people to evolve a moral conscience is to expect
an immediate regime run by talking unicorns and enlightened alien beings from Zeta Reticuli B:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ζ Reticuli
Location of ζ Reticuli (circled)
Observation data *******
Zeta Reticuli, Latinized from ζ Reticuli, is a wide binary star system in the southern constellation of Reticulum. From the southern hemisphere the pair can be seen with the naked eye as a double star in very dark skies. Based upon parallax measurements, this system is located at a distance of about 39.3 light-years (12 parsecs) from Earth. Both stars are solar analogs that have characteristics similar to those of the Sun. They belong to the Zeta Herculis Moving Group of stars that share a common origin.
******* See also:
Bob Lazar, Barney and Betty Hill, and Project Serpo fall into the subject of UFO conspiracy theories and alien abduction reports related to Zeta Reticuli
I'm on the same page as you Lucian. I heard Mika on Morning Joe ask one of the most asinine questions I have heard her utter to date, she was talking with one of the guests and asked him where the hostages were being kept, as if they were in a pen somewhere, and I thought Joe was clueless. Those hostages are spread out all over Gaza, finding one will be no guarantee they will be able to find any of the others, especially alive. I can see it taking years for each negotiated swap. What happened was unspeakably horrific, but the dead are dead now and beyond suffering, the captives are alive and that is now the most important problem the Israelis face. Those people are still alive, and the most important thing their government can do is secure their release. Yes they can level Gaza, they have been working on that 24-7 since Sunday, if they do that they will turn the world against them, because the number of innocent Palestinian dead will far exceed those of the Israelis. Netanyahu knows this, and is caught on the tip of his own spear, the right wants revenge, the rest of the nation wants to know “why did this happen”, he can try the former to hide from the latter, but not for long. WHY is going to be a very big question, I think he's toast. As a Green Beret I was trained in insurgency, how to conduct it as well as how to fight it. I think Hamas is in a checkmate position. If the Israelis invade, they will do so at a huge cost in lives including their own, or they can sit on the border like they are now, nasching their teeth knowing that Hamas got away with a lot of it, and that they will get the hostages back in trickles, but alive. I have no doubt that Hamas is evil incarnate, and that there will be hell to pay, but that will probably take a while to play out as it has in the past. Surely there are people in our government and Israel's who can think this through just like I did, and see that it makes sense, all of this is predicated on Hezbollah standing down and not turning Lebanon into a sea of fire. I hate the thought of relying on them doing anything sane, but maybe they are not suicidal.
Nice try, no matter what you and I and Lucian agree are the "wisest moves" here to avoid the impending Checkmate by Hamas, Israel is going to be viewing this as an existential threat they have to eliminate - possibly after a massive leaflet dropping campaign akin to the US prequel to dropping the atomic bombs, warning Hamas and alerting the entire world to intervene to help the effectively, de facto, "kidnapped" civilians of Gaza (or those who agree it is a worthy goal) those citizens who are coerced, forced under compulsion by Hamas to aid and abet a terrorist army, citizens of Gaza currently being deployed as human shields, in other words.
This is an unholy mess! There ARE no "good outcomes," only least worst resolutions.
Edit: There's a phrase from Anglo-American law that's applicable to Hamas's fiendish willingness to
refuse to release their kidnapped hostages, preferring to submit their own civilians to a blockade and cut-off of electricity, water, food:
"Punishments for contempt include imprisonment and fines. However, according to the Supreme Court, civil contempt penalties are conditional. One who is punished for civil contempt can avoid the punishment by doing as the court ordered and is therefore described as "carrying the keys of their prison in their own pocket." Punishments for criminal contempt, however, are generally unconditional and definite."
[Last updated in July of 2022 by the Wex Definitions Team]
https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/contempt_of_court
Hamas has the jailhouse keys in their pockets all right, but why should suddenly care at all
about the universal human rights, freedom and dignity, duty of care, duty of protection of citizens
by any state's leadership?
They are...the scum of the earth. Expecting these people to evolve a moral conscience is to expect
an immediate regime run by talking unicorns and enlightened alien beings from Zeta Reticuli B:
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
ζ Reticuli
Location of ζ Reticuli (circled)
Observation data *******
Zeta Reticuli, Latinized from ζ Reticuli, is a wide binary star system in the southern constellation of Reticulum. From the southern hemisphere the pair can be seen with the naked eye as a double star in very dark skies. Based upon parallax measurements, this system is located at a distance of about 39.3 light-years (12 parsecs) from Earth. Both stars are solar analogs that have characteristics similar to those of the Sun. They belong to the Zeta Herculis Moving Group of stars that share a common origin.
******* See also:
Bob Lazar, Barney and Betty Hill, and Project Serpo fall into the subject of UFO conspiracy theories and alien abduction reports related to Zeta Reticuli
Zeta Reticuli in fiction