Iran has launched a swarm of missile and drone strikes on Israel from Iranian territory, marking a significant military escalation between the two nations. Israel and Iran have been engaged in a so-called shadow war for decades, with Iranian proxies like Hezbollah rocketing Israel from Lebanon and Syria, and Israel retaliating by launching air strikes on Hezbollah missile sites. Israel has also launched strikes on Iranian targets in other countries, most recently an airstrike on part of the Iranian embassy in Damascus, Syria, which killed several top Iranian “advisers” to its military, including Mohammad Reza Zahedi, a senior officer in Iran’s Quds Force, an espionage and paramilitary arm of Iran’s army.
At this moment I'm glad we have a Commander in Chief with a brain (even an aging one) instead of a talking head that just spews hate and venom. Hoping this will not escalate out of control
Iran issued a tweet that this rash of drones and missiles will be its only response to Israel’s attack on their Syrian embassy in Damascus that killed several Iranian military leaders as you pointed out. That seems to be part of a plan by Iran to hit back once to save face, but to do so in a way that doesn’t escalate the situation. Israel’s next step against Iran will be a telling point of whether there is further escalation or not.
Meanwhile, the bad blood between Israel and Iran will continue, but most likely through proxies like Hezbollah and Houthis. So how does this conflict get resolved? The Iranian people don’t want this; the Israeli people don’t want this. It is the leadership of both that is continuing policies that create this threat. An honest broker (not the US) should be found to get all sides to sit down and talk, to include Gaza and the two-state solution. I know it is wishful thinking but anything else just leads to further violence and potential regional war.
And Trump should be ignored in all this as he did much to exacerbate US relations with Iran by saber-rattling and withdrawing from the nuclear agreement. He is a moron to be sure and his bloviating is just so much background noise that no one needs or wants to hear.
Few moments in its history have so completely exposed the decay of the United Nations into a labyrinth of anti-American bureaucracies as Hamas’s October 7 massacre. In Gaza, we see evidence of the UN Relief and Works Agency and World Health Organization complicit in Hamas war crimes, while others like the World Food Programme parrot Hamas propaganda. In New York and Geneva, from the Security Council and UN Women to the Human Rights Council and the WHO, groups refuse to condemn Hamas and its crimes against humanity — their condemnation is reserved solely for the victims of the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. The UN secretary-general himself may go down as the greatest enabler of this blatant antisemitism.
Threats to U.S. interests coming from the UN system are not confined to antisemitism, Israel, or Hamas. Since establishing FDD’s International Organizations Program, FDD scholars have documented how China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and other U.S. adversaries exploit the UN system to undermine the United States. The January 2021 monograph From Trump to Biden outlined a strategy of using American leverage inside international organizations to counter U.S. adversaries.1 A June 2021 monograph, A Better Blueprint for International Organizations, explained how the United States could condition aid to win concrete reforms at a dozen UN agencies.2 Instead, the Biden administration is repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration — insisting that engagement and diplomatic niceties could advance reform without asserting U.S. pressure or utilizing our outsized leverage. This strategy has failed.
I always thought diplomacy for the US should be in the form of “speak softly and carry a big stick.” We need to keep with the former but ramp up the latter.
Can anyone clarify what led Israel to attack and kill two Iranian military leaders in a diplomatic compound in Syria? Given all that is going on, this wouldn’t seem like the right time to provoke Iran and Hezbollah. What am I missing?
TLDR: "Currently, the IRGC is designated as a terrorist organization by Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Sweden and the United States.[9][10]" ******
Whereas the Iranian Army protects the country's sovereignty in a traditional capacity, the IRGC's constitutional mandate is to ensure the integrity of the Islamic Republic.[7] Most interpretations of this mandate assert that it entrusts the IRGC with preventing foreign interference in Iran, thwarting coups by the traditional military, and crushing "deviant movements" that harm the ideological legacy of the Islamic Revolution.[8] Currently, the IRGC is designated as a terrorist organization by Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Sweden and the United States.[9][10]
As of 2011, the IRGC had at least 250,000 total personnel. The IRGC Navy is now Iran's primary force exercising operational control over the Persian Gulf.[11] The IRGC's Basij, a paramilitary volunteer militia, has about 90,000 active personnel.[12][13] It operates a media arm, known as "Sepah News" within Iran.[14] On 16 March 2022, it adopted a new independent branch called the "Command for the Protection and Security of Nuclear Centres" involved with Iran's nuclear programme.[15]
Originating as an ideological militia, the IRGC has taken a greater role in nearly every aspect of Iranian politics and society. In 2019, Reuters described the organization as "an industrial empire with political clout".[16] IRGC's expanded social, political, military, and economic role under Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—especially during the 2009 presidential election and the suppression of post-election protests—has led many Western analysts to argue that it has surpassed even the country's ruling clerical class in terms of political power.[17][18][19][20] ******
I suppose I could post film of their minions beating up Iranian women in streets, not sure if they use those collapsible metal sjamboks or just regular metal rods and billy clubs.
Essentially, they are the scum of the earth and if they were active within the USA would be aligned with the most violent fascist and white racist domestic terrorists, the ones the FBI lists as the most dangerous ongoing current threat.
Imagine an entire country on our borders ruled by their equivalent (Hamas) shooting missiles, mortars, drones, attempting infiltrations to blow up shopping centers, etc.
I moot that hypothetical to suggest the stark contrast between Americans who served in wars thousands of miles away advising Israel to "just declare a permanent ceasefire with Hamas! Sure Hamas terrorists embed themselves within civilian infrastructure, including hospitals, under the cities in hundreds of miles of sophisticated tunnels costing billions financed with funds they stole from UN and EU and other 'humanitarian aid,' but just negotiate with them! Don't try to destroy them as far as that's possible, rehabilitate them! Be on the best of terms with them whenever possible!" blah blah blah.
To me, all that sincere, well-meaning advice sounds totally disconnected from the real world, as deranged as Marjorie Taylor Green and Trump - just the intent, the sincerity, the old fashioned good will and peace towards men and women and children , is different.
Hamas could end this war NOW by [1} Declaring a unilateral ceasefire - laying down their arms and calling on Israel to immediately transition into doing the same and [2] Releasing all their hostages without conditions. But expecting their victims to stop engaging in vigorous self-defense, to track down the mass murderers, is not going to happen. Netanyahu voted out, excellent! Hamas (or Iranian proxy Hizbollah) launches another large terrorist attack targeting civilians? Guess what: whoever is elected to replace Netanyahu will be responding vigorously, bombing the bases, even IF they have to drop the same leaflets, make the same warning calls, to the hapless civilians to flee.
Israel probably saw an opportunity to push back on Iran for its support of Hamas and Hezbollah, and took it. The timing can be criticized, but the Netenyahu gov’t may have calculated it would draw attention away from Gaza and dampen US criticism of Israel if Iran then reacted. That Iran publicly state the missiles and drones last night were the extent of its response indicates Iran doesn’t want to escalate this further. Up to Israel now to take the next step.
Turns out I should have given you more credit than National Public Radio, this morning, Monday, April 15, those two terrorist plotters were described as "two Iranian leaders," and since it was in the Iranian embassy in Damascus, casual listeners could even draw the conclusion it was "two Iranian diplomats"!
I see that we should protect American facilities and personel, but Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. They can take care of themselves. We have given them the finest weapons in the world and funds to purchase more. I know some will not like this, but Israel needs to stop the killing of innocent women and children. The Zionists need to stop their apartheid policies. I am not against Israel, but they have the ability to defend themselves from much weaker terrorist groups. We do not need to be involved. The 10/7 attack was a tragedy. However, Israel has had their revenge by killing innocent civilians. It is time to stop. Again, some of you will not like my comment, but I have been in one meaningless war and we do not need another. I will not have a further comment.
(1) The "Apartheid" smear is simply false, Israel doesn't fit that model no matter how often it is repeated and [2] Israel has targeted HAMAS TERRORISTS in a legal fashion in time of war, this has led to over 15,000 Hamas terrorist embedded in the civilian population being killed, so much for your "revenge by killing innocent civilians" smear, which also fails.
This entire war and every single death is directly the responsibility of Hamas as a Terrorist State, which could end the war tomorrow, immediately by [1] Declaring a unilateral ceasefire and [2] Releasing their hostages, from the small children to the elderly man in his eighties.
THOSE are your "innocent victims," along with every last citizen of Gaza murdered in cold blood by Hamas fanatics trying unsuccessfully to steal food and medicine to continue their terrorism. And all blown to smithereens by Islamic Jihad's inept missiles falling in Gaza. Don't enable it by reversing the causality: it's HAMAS and Islamic Jihad who engaged in illegal aggressive warfare, who refuse to allow their own citizens any voice at all, ever, in any way, to assent or dissent, and who instead deploy those civilians as "human shields," really more like "human sacrifices." Hamas has to be defeated, anything short of that only sets up and even worse war of terrorism in the near future.
Your personal history in a meaningless war has absolutely no bearing on any salient, relevant point in this entire discussion. It gives you no moral authority to surrender on behalf of Israelis or Gazans, to the Hamas terrorists.
Do you see now?
Few moments in its history have so completely exposed the decay of the United Nations into a labyrinth of anti-American bureaucracies as Hamas’s October 7 massacre. In Gaza, we see evidence of the UN Relief and Works Agency and World Health Organization complicit in Hamas war crimes, while others like the World Food Programme parrot Hamas propaganda. In New York and Geneva, from the Security Council and UN Women to the Human Rights Council and the WHO, groups refuse to condemn Hamas and its crimes against humanity — their condemnation is reserved solely for the victims of the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. The UN secretary-general himself may go down as the greatest enabler of this blatant antisemitism.
Threats to U.S. interests coming from the UN system are not confined to antisemitism, Israel, or Hamas. Since establishing FDD’s International Organizations Program, FDD scholars have documented how China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and other U.S. adversaries exploit the UN system to undermine the United States. The January 2021 monograph From Trump to Biden outlined a strategy of using American leverage inside international organizations to counter U.S. adversaries.1 A June 2021 monograph, A Better Blueprint for International Organizations, explained how the United States could condition aid to win concrete reforms at a dozen UN agencies.2 Instead, the Biden administration is repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration — insisting that engagement and diplomatic niceties could advance reform without asserting U.S. pressure or utilizing our outsized leverage. This strategy has failed.
You, Mr Richard Turnbull, can always be relied upon to roar out your self satisfied, tubthumping opinions in that aggravating tone that some men take, as if their opinions are the only ones with a shred of truth, and everyone who doesn't agree 100% with you is a pathetic fool. In fact an enormous number of credible, rational, admirable Jewish people, many of whose parents died in the Nazi Holocaust, don't agree with you either, and plainly deliniate the difference between Zionism and Judaism. You don't seem to be all that clear about the history of Israel and Palestine, either. I note that you never once say the word "Zionism". Why is that?
Mr. Turnbull has a knack for believing his personal opinions and he should not be taken too seriously. Let's just hope the Zionist do not bite off they can chew and that the US is not drawn into this unjust conflict. Thank you for your comment.
Where do you get off casting these as "my personal opinions," as if (1) They aren't widely shared and supported by mountains of credible evidence and (2) YOU somehow do NOT "have a knack for believing your personal opinions"?
Who on earth proceeds like this, refusing to make any attempt whatsoever to refute one single particle of the case against Hamas and for Israel I made, also allowing that Netanyahu is horrible, also allowing that it IS possible the case is flawed, sure, but WHERE is it flawed?
Why should anyone take your failures to do other than launch the apartheid smear, the genocide smear, etc. as proof you are just a trolling, unserious commentator on this, I'll bet you can't even define "Zionism"!
Of course the term is ambiguous as hell - I would define it simply as the ideology that Jews has a right to a national homeland just like everyone else, and that homeland is the State of Israel, but you're using it tendentiously, in the mode of a troll who wants to surreptitiously question Israel's right to exist.
LOL, persona invective always amuses me, thanks! And sexist bigotry is even better, my longtime feminist commitments (going back over fifty years) leave me singularly unscathed by that kind of inane trolling, though. It's just pathetic to realize how frenzied and self-righteous people can get anonymously online - you of course have NO IDEA of the hundreds and hundreds (more like thousands) of hours I have spent over many decades, wrestling sincerely with these issues - but you feel empowered to unsuccessfully try to insult me?
Here's your answer:
Because "Zionism" and the views of some other people unnamed who are not on here making any relevant arguments have NO LOGICAL BEARING on anything in my comments, none whatsoever. This entire set of circumstances could be moved into the Amazonian Rainforest and every single important distinction between the warring parties would remain intact: Hamas and Israel just happen to be the entities involved.
Your political and moral nous is juvenile and obtuse, are you happy now?
I am blocking you, something I almost never do, on any website, but for inane trolls, it's different.
"I was wrong, I misunderstood the concept application, thanks for educating me about this practically omnipresent issue in human discussions"?
So far none of you in the "consensus majority" (that Israel is something something massively something Gaza dead something, it's always globally vague complaints that I see as complaints that Israel is winning the specific part of the war against Hamas they understand: eliminating the Hamas terrorists with as little killing of their human shields as possible) are really at sea once you are challenged to show Hamas isn't an existential threat to Israel's national security on their border, and we would do exactly the same thing if a terrorist state on our borders killed some 40,000 Americans in one day - albeit, probably less carefully, so the civilian toll would be higher.
But for sure: we would determinedly seek out the terrorists and kill them, case closed.
What? It's an ad hominem fallacy embedded in a sophistical debating trick, Susan - not only did I never state that "all personal invective in all circumstances is a bad thing," sometimes it's the only fair and reasonable way to describe a person's behavior, or their character!
But it can clearly be deployed as part of a paralogical reasoning process, as here, by K. Stavrou:
First, the person with no substantive rebuttal starts a personal attack, THEN when the person attacked describes the nature of their invective accurately (here, it was some stereotyping of males, along with "self-satisfied, aggravating," which are descriptions of her own emotive states since she's frustrated by having, again, NO SUBSTANTIVE REBUTTAL, then she caricatures that as "as if everyone who doesn't agree 100% with you is a pathetic fool," which is laughable - where's the substantive rebuttal to which I am supposed to be struck with the shining light of revelation to make me realize, oh my GOD, how could I make the very basic arguments that millions of people make about this war, they are obviously mistaken! Not only that, how DARE I demand that everyone agree with me 100%, which I must have done somewhere...let me see, Kathy Stavrou said it, and in such as reasonable tone, too! Not in a smug, self-satisfied, tub-thumping way, which I can "always be relied upon" to evince - I mean, in all my hundreds (actually thousands by now) of comments, really? Wow, K. Stavrou has such intense comprehension of all the nuances in all my comments, she's able to flatten them all out and distill this terrible essence - or, wait, is it only about the Israelis and Israel she gets excited about?
Well, be that as it may, K. Stavrou is informing me that somehow or other, the blatantly obvious distinction between Zionism and Judaism is crucial to my arguments, and I failed to even mention Zionism! Aha! That must be where I went wrong!
So now all she would have to do is to explain why that completely irrelevant distinction IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE ARGUMENTS is in fact, relevant! Or why what Holocaust survivors believe, or imagine is going on, or hear from relatives in Israel, can have to do with the soundness or lack of soundness of those arguments!
You need to refute the arguments as they are stated, not in the form of some tendentious caricature, she failed completely at that, so this time I blocked her.
Here's one last example: "Donald Trump is a lying fraudster and a sexual abuser." THAT is personal invective, but it is NOT an instance of an ad hominem fallacy.
It's difficult for the West to grasp the adherence to and the role of martyrdom in the region as well as the region's unadulterated quest for revenge. Will say all the parties are reasonable up until the first slight. From there it is full-throttle madness.
While many might argue could this start WW3 the answer is best put this way, this is just another weekend in the region.
And it is a very strange dynamic at work for the martyrdom trip: use your "sacred texts" to rant relentlessly about (1) Unbelievers, who deserve pretty much any kind of horrific retributions, (2) Women, who are systematically devalued, disrespected, even demonized to some extent, and (3) Another set of religious beliefs (Judaism) with which your belief system shares a huge amount of doctrines and key figures and even shared ancestry, but somehow spinning their alleged shortcomings for "rejecting The Prophet of God /Allah," such that they emerge as demonic figures, all of which prepares the wild-eyed, essentially brainwashed or "self-hypnotized" martyrs to cavort with incomparably lovely women after they die in martyrdom operations against (1) and (3)!
It's like something out of a satirical cartoon about religious thinking gone berserk, yet those who manage to only pay attention to the extensive positive textual injunctions in the texts (the Koran and Haditha) for peace, compassion, fair treatment (of fellow believers, well, except for women) and other universally shared good behavior, just forge ahead anyway.
We are all blessed, atheists, believers, agnostics, heretics, religious teachers, by the deep common sense of common people, and their - our - shared instinct to just try to be a good person, good people, forget the martyrdom exhortations, forget being mean to those who who believe differently, forget disrespecting women, forget all ranting dogma.
Cf. Cafeteria Catholics, another stalwart example of similar common sense!
I was outdoors behind Coffman Memorial Union* , facing on the Mississippi River this Saturday afternoon, commencement ceremonies already underway for some professional programs, people of all sorts wandering all over that sprawling campus, had my Special 20s in a case, WAY WAY too blustery to even play them, though.
* When this building opened in 1940 it was the largest student union in the USA (and maybe the world). For only journalism course I took at Macalester, Cathe C. and I went to the "Gopher Whole Coffeehouse" to do our assigned interview project. Willa Mae "Big Mama" Thornton, we sipped some of her Jack Daniels in paper cups, before the gig, she explained the whole "Hound Dog" ripoff by Elvis's manager, etc., (that was my first question, she had plenty more of interest to say, too) - also on the bill: Harmonica George Smith, didn't interview him. I did see him again 6 or 7 years later at So's Your Mother in Des Moines (Drake U. campus midwestern blues circuit bar, people like Son Seals, Fenton Robinson, Mose Allison, many many more played there.
" On May 4, 1970, the same day as the Kent State shootings, protesters started occupying Coffman 24 hours a day which lasted for a month. In May of 1972, the largest demonstrations at the university took place in response to President Richard Nixon's announcement that the United States would begin to blockade and mine North Vietnam's harbors. On May 10, over 6,000 protesters gathered at Coffman for a rally that included former United States Congressman Eugene McCarthy.[3]"
So peculiar as we watch like a fireworks show in July. Very unreal. Remarkable (and not Biden’s fault actually though I’ll blame my paper cut on him in a heartbeat)an eerie.
Have we warned other countries not to interfere?
Or Is this the’”spark? Or yet another Iranian burp.
Can add my 2cents, went fishing the other day and caught nothing because under Biden even the fish are emboldened. Or perhaps all the illegals Biden let in caught all the fishies.
Excuse me, but this Iranian attack is a direct result of Israel attacking Iran's embassy in Syria in order to kill a few Iranian generals. Were these guys really that irreplaceable? And I thought that embassies were supposed to be safe places under international law. We have to ask what the politics of that stupid attack really were. Yet Biden once again gives Israel carte blanc to act without consulting us.
Once Netanyahu chose to ally himself with the religious extremist (west bank illegal settlement fanaticism) and with the demented support of idiot Trump to claim Jerusalem (a city historically religiously integrated between Muslims, Christian’s and Jews) as the capital of Israel things have changed in Israel. The Israelis are not a monolithic group - except and rightly so - in service to the defense of their repeatedly attacked country (interestingly however that the extreme religious right wing is exempt from military service). Those that I know dislike Netanyahu, his corruption and his mentality.
When ya kill 10x more folks than your opponent, ya automatically lose the War. In this case, it’s about 30x.
Israel has already lost this War.
And Israel’s continuing attacks by Settlers in the West Bank, and upon its neighbors….accomplishing nothing (may I repeat—nothing), are a Shonda for the Jews.
Israel has been hijacked by Bibi and his co-conspirators. How can I put this mildly — they are fucking themselves.
Most of the Palestinian Gazan casualties are Hamas terrorists, prove me wrong!
Oh that's right, for you to even attempt a real proof of that, or that your weird theory that killing more of the enemy than the enemy kills of your population "means you lose" isn't incoherence on a Trumpian level, would mean admitting that some proportion of the 30, 000 +
ARE in fact Hamas terrorists.
The estimates are about 1/2, makes sense since the Israeli intel on this kind of tracking was not the problem exposed on October 7 - they could figure out the actual targets among Hamas and not the over two million other Gaza residents. So about 15-17 thousand Hamas terrorists dead, leaves maybe another 5-6 thousand estimated, mostly around Rafah.
Go ahead and list the number of Hamas terrorists in that figure - out of the roughly 30-33 thousand, how many?
It’s in fact one of the most successfully targeted demolitions of a terrorist organization in recent history - unless you have a better example.
The rest of your comment I agree with, that’s the difference, I also want Netanyahu OUT, but the war against Hamas is not only already a major military victory, any Israeli leader who replaces Netanyahu and is attacked on the same scale by Hizbollah or some version of “Islamic Jihad” from the West Bank, will also respond similarly: Warn all the civilians to flee, through leaflets and texts and phone messages, then seek out the terrorists and kill them.
It’s not exactly rocket surgery, it has nothing to do per se with Israel and THEIR local and surrounding terrorists, it’s what any state anywhere (that even cared at all about the terrorists’ civilian bases, that is!) would end up doing as well as they could. Ukraine is doing it in a different form against THEIR aggressive invading terrorists, given the Russian modus operandi.
I've been watching it on MSNBC! So far, no damage and no casualties is what I heard so far! What a Saturday night and hope it doesn't turn into WWIII! I wonder what SNL will be like later.
Have message for all Americans favoring great Mother Russia plan presented by fearless leader Vlad "Never Sad" Putin, be happy, we are now looking at World War Four so please catch up.
Was First Imperialist world war, end when Russian Bolsheviks declare Tsar and war out, peace and bread is in, have new revolution and 3rd International victory for workers and peasants. Second war we liberate Europe from Nazis till Americans and Brits and French reactionaries fail to help us, join Uncle Joe Stalin plan for humanity's salvation, so we get third world war: so-called Cold War.
Cold war is lost in worst disaster in human history, we Russians have to organize for Fourth world war, like in Georgia, in Chechnya, we reclaim Crimea stolen by Ukrainian Nazis! Now we aim for rest of Ukraine which is rightfully ours! Also be informed,
Russian State TV Wants Moscow to Conquer Three US States*
Published Apr 13, 2024 at 10:30 AM EDT
"I want the Russian empire with Alaska, Hawaii, California, Finland, and Poland," he said, as translated by Gerashchenko for the clip he shared. "Although Poland and Finland are so stinky, I'm not sure, to be honest. We'll clean them."
Now that this is clear to you Ms. Botwinick (similar to name of great Russian Chess Champion of the World Mikhail, thank you very much!) you can stop worrying about World War Three and sleep soundly!
Yeah. And tomorrow MTG will livestream for her bathroom and claim Space aliens from Mergatroid responsible. And their fearless astronaut Yogi Bear Is in charge. And you know he's still alive. Because of deep state cryogenics who's ranking physician Dr. Spock will mid meld with the enemy--The U.S. Constitution. Maga will be certain Yogi Bear is really alive not animated. Margatroid being controlled the Libs
I haven’t been following events in the ME very closely of late, and may have things all wrong. Do we know what Israel’s rationale was for attacking the Iranian embassy (without telling Washington in advance)? It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Yahoo wanted to provoke an Iranian attack, as is happening this moment, to get the Israeli aid bill through Congress, to make himself a war time leader, to keep his butt out of prison, to attempt regaining a smidgeon of the moral high ground. As ridiculous as that is. The Gaza war hasn’t worked out well for him or Israel, never mind what it’s done to the Palestinians, and so a full out Iranian attack, even provoked, makes Israel look like a sort-of victim. What a barbaric thing to do! I also think Yahoo is trying to suck us into a war with Iran. That’s not so far fetched either, but I have confidence in Biden not to take that bait. Yahoo is truly evil, and for how much longer will the Israelis tolerate him. For how much longer will we tolerate him.
Thank you, Lucian. I have friends with relatives in Israel, as I do too. Thank goodness for the Iron Dome to thwart off those drones! I heard Sec’y of Defense, Lloyd Austin, was none too happy with Yoav Galant, his Israeli counterpart for not informing him or his staff of their plans. Galant is as dangerous as Bibi.
Russia will back Iran if Israel fires on Iran. Not sure though how much extra military power is available that is not in Ukraine. I felt this was inevitable due to Israel's devastation of Gaza. There is much I haven't kept up on as far as internecine conflicts in the ME. It just seems to be escalating lately; I hope without international repercussions. I, too, am thankful we have leadership in DC with experience and calm heads.
How so? Admittedly foreign policy, being the prerogative of the office of the presidency, has been reactive by necessity. The one thing we likely did better than anything though was our stated and determined support of Israel. Apart from the humanitarian imperative given what we witnessed in WW2, confronting the dismal partitioning of the ME by the ‘great powers’ Israel as a nation state giving a homeland to the Jewish people of all nations, in a land where they’ve never abandoned and lived in for thousands of years, made sense. Washington wasn’t imposing any restrictions on their support, the alliance spoken or unspoken was they would be steadfast allies, a base of democracy in the ME. Circumstances and persistant attacks create their own climate. As such it’s never been, as such, a vassal state.
Leadership without foreign intervention, is what I meant. Think Russia is bad? Israel has most of the politicians in DC on its payroll. There is nothing grand or democratic about it. It's a terrible state of affairs.
Simple solution is up to HAMAS, you know, the internationally designated terrorists running Gaza?
[1} They declare a unilateral ceasefire, [2} Release all the hostages with no cute preconditions, none, zero, nada, as they have absolutely no right in their role as international gangsters who kidnap people for ransom, to insist on ANYTHING.
Well, apart from fair trials and defense attorneys in their war crimes trials - the same as any Israelis credibly accused of committing war crimes!
On Sept. 21, the Guardian published an extract from a soon to be released book (A Day in the Life of Abed Salama: A Palestine Story) by Nathan Thrall. Thrall is an American author and anti-Israel propagandist who, CAMERA has shown, condones Palestinian terrorism as an effective means to chase Israel out of the West Bank.
The section of Thrall’s book published by the Guardian focuses on the early to mid-2000s, and the plight of a Palestinian woman named Huda Dahbour and her family – including her son Hadi, who was imprisoned around that time. Though nothing written by someone who endorses violence should surprise us, it’s still notable that Thrall actually attempts to attribute both a brain haemorrhage Huda suffered from and needed surgery to repair, as well as her divorce, on the stress from, yes, Israel’s occupation.
Thrall’s references to young Palestinians who served time in Israeli prison also omits the context of terror from the equation, and, at one point, uncritically cites a claim “that the presence [of soldiers] of seemed designed to provoke the [Palestinian] students so they could then arrest as many of them as possible”. He also accuses the IDF of brutality and even torture of young Palestinian suspects without providing evidence. {More}
An upvote for an excellent start, you generated a sort of vague premise for a possibly cogent argument!
[I left graduate school in philosophy at the U. of Minnesota - Twin Cities to get that J.D., your post brings back memories of inchoate logical arguments, isn't this fun?]
Now since the difference between "many" and "hundreds" won't do and also shows a worrisome lack of confidence - we both want to craft the strongest form of your incipient claim, you to make some sort of attack on the legal bona fides of locking
"Palestinians and Israeli Arab citizens" indefinitely without trial, and I to first evaluate the suspects (would their release in any given individual instance allow an even worse imminent national security threat of more mass murders of civilians committed by the same suspects? Are the cases being stymied by other alleged terrorists?)
I might still decide they, or any single one of them at least, should be released anyway! That's what we want to find out, correct Mr. Dooley? They are in prison, so should they be released? If they have a record of blowing up buildings elsewhere, or as co-conspirators, maybe Jordan doesn't want them back, maybe they have police records of terroristic threats but were arrested before acting on them, who knows?
You need to make a specific, detailed, cogent, lucid, relevant argument with sound premises and a validly inferred conclusion! Who knows, I might agree with it, and ask you about Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in a time of war, or not.*
But so far, we don't know how many there are or who they are or what they did, so you go ahead and cite AT LEAST ONE NAME with the details of whatever circumstances about the arrest are available, we will turn that case into a real logical argument, and go from there, fair enough?
NPS.govPark HomeLearn About the ParkHistory & CulturePeopleThe Lincoln Conspirators
The Lincoln Conspirators
[Engravings of 9 portraits of the conspirators, arranged in a circle with Mrs. Surratt at center.
Engravings of the conspirators tried in connection with Lincoln's murder. From the frontispiece to Benn Pittman's "The Trial of the Conspirators" (1865). Dr. Mudd is missing as the author did not have a likeness of him to include.]
In the two weeks following the assassination, hundreds of individuals were detained, questioned, and in some cases imprisoned, as federal agents tried to determine who was responsible for the assassination of President Lincoln. The investigators settled on ten individuals they believed were responsible for the crime. One, John Wilkes Booth himself, had been cornered and killed on Garrett's farm on April 26, 1865. Another, John Surratt, had fled the country and would not be tried until 1867. The remaining eight were charged in the conspiracy and tried by a military tribunal. Testimony from 366 witnesses took seven weeks, and at the conclusion, four of the accused were sentenced to hang, and the other four sentenced to imprisonment (three for life at hard labor, and one, Ned Spangler, for six years). Many others who assisted Booth in the plot or in his escape were brought in for questioning, but were released due to lack of evidence. ******
On April 14, 1865, Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president of the United States, was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth while attending the play Our American Cousin at Ford's Theatre in Washington, D.C. Shot in the head as he watched the play,[2] Lincoln died of his wounds the following day at 7:22 am in the Petersen House opposite the theater.[3] He was the first U.S. president to be assassinated.[4] His funeral and burial were marked by an extended period of national mourning.
***** Here's another hypothetical - it's 159 years later, what if the Civil War had dragged on inconclusively for another twenty years: these defendants in the conspiracy to assassinate President Lincoln who are under arrest, claim they have exculpatory evidence that will prove their innocence (as for instance, that they were coerced with death threats themselves to participate) but the persons who know that are still alive and fighting for the Confederacy. Should they be executed anyway? Held for their adjudicate sentences, then released?
Thanks again for showing signs of critical thinking, we need more of that, we can both agree!
Thoughts at large after watching events unfold... don't claim to be an expert ...
Hamas attacks 7 Oct – murderous, savage killing spree with unspeakable atrocities
Netanyahu and his government vow reprisals and revenge, including claims, echoed in some US circles, that there are no innocent Gazans
Prior to this, Qatar had sent millions of dollars to Hamas through Israel and with Israeli government compliance. As verified later by defense minister, this money was an attempt to split Hamas from West Bank Palestinians so as to prevent a united front for two state solution
It seems Israeli government figured Hamas had been effectively bought off with payment, as Israel focused efforts on preparing for attack from Lebanon. The number of Israeli soldiers listening to Hamas radio comms before the attack had been significantly reduced. After 7 Oct, there were reports that Hamas dead had the types of comm equipment with them that Israeli listening posts would have been monitoring had there not been a reduction in the number of listeners.
Israel warns Gazans to evacuate before military assault – very hard for millions to move quickly and the counterattack began soon after the warning.
War has evolved into massive destruction and loss of life in Gaza. Hamas has suffered thousands of casualties, but the civilian population, including children, have suffered greatly and is on the verge of starvation. The massive counterattack and destruction have not stopped Hamas from launching missiles toward Israel nor has it prompted release of hostages. Is part of the Israeli response anger that Hamas attacked despite being funded with Israeli compliance?
To be sure, genocide is hard to prove. But one does not need to be caught up in legal wrangling over whether this is genocide to believe that the Israeli response is disproportionate. And it seems to me, counterproductive.
A former Israeli Chief of Staff warned that individuals may seek revenge, but that government cannot. What leaders say matter – and if you state and believe that there are no innocent Gazans, then this wholesale destruction is what you get.
While simultaneously replenishing Israeli ammo stocks, the US has been begging, urging,pleading etc.. with Israel for months to prevent civilian losses while hunting down Hamas. Israel has not listened. That same former Israeli Chief of Staff claims that Israeli soldiers have become hardened toward the population, and that lives have lost meaning. He also added that more former Israeli officers have been questioning the apparent lack of an endgame strategy by the current hard line government.
Those Gazans who have trekked back north have seen their homes destroyed and cities reduced to rubble. Even if as a Gazan you did not like Hamas, is it beyond the pale to think that a new version of Hamas will rise from the ruins to take revenge against Israel? That’s what I mean by counterproductive strategy.
The daughter of former Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres believes that there must be a two-state solution.
Israel’s launching of a strike in the Syrian capital of Damascus, as a counter to missile launches by Hezbollah from Lebanon, killed key Iranian officials and prompted this latest attack from Iran. I find it ironic that US officials labeled the Iranian response with hundreds of weapon systems “disproportionate.” (Which it was). Note that US forces stationed in the area also helped shoot down Iranian missiles, drones, etc… so we are more involved than ever in this latest escalation.
Is Iran funding and supporting Hezbollah, Hamas, and Houthis? Yes
Does Iran wish to see Israel destroyed? Yes
Does Hamas leadership want a two-state solution? No
Does the current Israeli leadership want a two-state solution? No
Is the current Israeli method of retaliating against Gaza counterproductive? Yes
It seems only a regional league of the US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the emirates can bring Israel and Hamas to the table to work out a solution. This is not something that can be fixed simply by military means, nor can it be addressed with pithy statement designed to generate heat and not light.
Affirms unjustified war is a circular series of hooman, errors, miscalculations, bad judgment, a single order of effect, thinking, and most of all a mindset of war is winnable if only the other side capitulates.
So, it's less about lessons learned and far more about that which was never unlearned. Am grateful this mess is happening under a Democratic Adm, w/the President/CinC who has lived a life filled with unjust wars, a female VP who brings a wimmin's POV into the decision tree, and a SECDEF who knows well unjust wars only serve to bring forth another.
Now as to Trump's constant refrain of this (choose any of many) wouldn't have occurred if I was President. Only fools think that way. Only the foolish buy that. No person can claim if they were involved history would unfold exactly as they claim it would. Changes to history are unknowable whether it be Trump's big talk or those predicting how history woulda' unfolded if JFK or RFK wasn't assassinated. Trying to map out a different history is the worst use of the hooman brain and of time ever. That includes in one's own life.
No person can change the past, all people can change the future by what they do in the present.
Seems to me that if Israel counter attacks Iran there's a danger of WWIII (if we're not already in it in slow motion) and if they do nothing they will be seen as weakened and more will come. There's a side of this that suggests that maybe it's time for Israel to target just the Mullahs and single out the leaders of these religious fanatics and end it once and for all.
To me "The Palestinian Problem" is a long, nasty, murderous soap opera which has been playing for 75 of my years. But it goes on because it has some rich sponsors who accept any Israeli script: every U.S. President, from Truman on.
Keep in mind that there are lsraeli leaders who are more aggressive than Bibi. The region is a tinderbox which is why the stakes are so high. Descolation is unrealistic in a nation that was formed out of the ashes of near-complete annihilation.
The per-capita population ratio between Jews and Muslins staggering. And certainly Palestinians are winning the public relations contest.
If the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, we are up to our necks in debt! But the alternative is unacceptable. There’s enough room and resources, the difficulty is developing and maintaining neighbors you can trust. And if you can’t trust your neighbors, you’ve got to make friends abroad! And if you’re being attacked, you have a duty to defend yourself.
Slnce Iran has stated more than once their desire for the complete destruction of Israel, I wondering if thought crossed Netanyahu's mind that if they (Iran) had the bomb right now would one of those missiles have had a nuclear warhead, and will that happen in the future? They might be thinking this would be a good time to make sure that never happens.
At this moment I'm glad we have a Commander in Chief with a brain (even an aging one) instead of a talking head that just spews hate and venom. Hoping this will not escalate out of control
The readon to vote for Biden.
Trump.
Actually as a 83 year old white republican id rather vote for Bernie Sanders or Che Guevara.
Sorry, not available this time. Biden needs to be your choice!
Like i said, joe is the only choice.
But i like Jill?
Jill Biden or Jill "from Russia with love" Stein?
Biden
Please no
I knew a Rohrbach back in the day.was a strident LDS DUDE.
Not our branch of the family!
Maybe, i may write in Fidel.
Why, and in favor of whom (or what)?
As a Republican you really should take a look at yourself.
Your leader is a rapist. Think what that makes you.
Greg, if you get a chance ask Russell Bufalino and Jimmy Hoffa what they think about Joe Biden.
When did you start paying attention to (a) U.S. politics, (b) U.S. foreign policy, or (c) the world in general?
Iran issued a tweet that this rash of drones and missiles will be its only response to Israel’s attack on their Syrian embassy in Damascus that killed several Iranian military leaders as you pointed out. That seems to be part of a plan by Iran to hit back once to save face, but to do so in a way that doesn’t escalate the situation. Israel’s next step against Iran will be a telling point of whether there is further escalation or not.
Meanwhile, the bad blood between Israel and Iran will continue, but most likely through proxies like Hezbollah and Houthis. So how does this conflict get resolved? The Iranian people don’t want this; the Israeli people don’t want this. It is the leadership of both that is continuing policies that create this threat. An honest broker (not the US) should be found to get all sides to sit down and talk, to include Gaza and the two-state solution. I know it is wishful thinking but anything else just leads to further violence and potential regional war.
And Trump should be ignored in all this as he did much to exacerbate US relations with Iran by saber-rattling and withdrawing from the nuclear agreement. He is a moron to be sure and his bloviating is just so much background noise that no one needs or wants to hear.
Why are we even listening to the idiot?? STFU, P01135890!!!
Yes except one way or another the United States will be in the negotiations, "honest broker" label or not.
"In," as in absolutely fundamental to any progress guaranteed in the region, as there is simply no other nation able to take on the role.
It's supposed to be handled by the United Nations by this point, but that's not happening.
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/04/05/the-urgent-need-for-un-reform/
Few moments in its history have so completely exposed the decay of the United Nations into a labyrinth of anti-American bureaucracies as Hamas’s October 7 massacre. In Gaza, we see evidence of the UN Relief and Works Agency and World Health Organization complicit in Hamas war crimes, while others like the World Food Programme parrot Hamas propaganda. In New York and Geneva, from the Security Council and UN Women to the Human Rights Council and the WHO, groups refuse to condemn Hamas and its crimes against humanity — their condemnation is reserved solely for the victims of the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. The UN secretary-general himself may go down as the greatest enabler of this blatant antisemitism.
Threats to U.S. interests coming from the UN system are not confined to antisemitism, Israel, or Hamas. Since establishing FDD’s International Organizations Program, FDD scholars have documented how China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and other U.S. adversaries exploit the UN system to undermine the United States. The January 2021 monograph From Trump to Biden outlined a strategy of using American leverage inside international organizations to counter U.S. adversaries.1 A June 2021 monograph, A Better Blueprint for International Organizations, explained how the United States could condition aid to win concrete reforms at a dozen UN agencies.2 Instead, the Biden administration is repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration — insisting that engagement and diplomatic niceties could advance reform without asserting U.S. pressure or utilizing our outsized leverage. This strategy has failed.
*******
I always thought diplomacy for the US should be in the form of “speak softly and carry a big stick.” We need to keep with the former but ramp up the latter.
Can anyone clarify what led Israel to attack and kill two Iranian military leaders in a diplomatic compound in Syria? Given all that is going on, this wouldn’t seem like the right time to provoke Iran and Hezbollah. What am I missing?
"Military leaders" is a cute circumlocution!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_Revolutionary_Guard_Corps
TLDR: "Currently, the IRGC is designated as a terrorist organization by Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Sweden and the United States.[9][10]" ******
Whereas the Iranian Army protects the country's sovereignty in a traditional capacity, the IRGC's constitutional mandate is to ensure the integrity of the Islamic Republic.[7] Most interpretations of this mandate assert that it entrusts the IRGC with preventing foreign interference in Iran, thwarting coups by the traditional military, and crushing "deviant movements" that harm the ideological legacy of the Islamic Revolution.[8] Currently, the IRGC is designated as a terrorist organization by Bahrain, Saudi Arabia, Sweden and the United States.[9][10]
As of 2011, the IRGC had at least 250,000 total personnel. The IRGC Navy is now Iran's primary force exercising operational control over the Persian Gulf.[11] The IRGC's Basij, a paramilitary volunteer militia, has about 90,000 active personnel.[12][13] It operates a media arm, known as "Sepah News" within Iran.[14] On 16 March 2022, it adopted a new independent branch called the "Command for the Protection and Security of Nuclear Centres" involved with Iran's nuclear programme.[15]
Originating as an ideological militia, the IRGC has taken a greater role in nearly every aspect of Iranian politics and society. In 2019, Reuters described the organization as "an industrial empire with political clout".[16] IRGC's expanded social, political, military, and economic role under Mahmoud Ahmadinejad—especially during the 2009 presidential election and the suppression of post-election protests—has led many Western analysts to argue that it has surpassed even the country's ruling clerical class in terms of political power.[17][18][19][20] ******
I suppose I could post film of their minions beating up Iranian women in streets, not sure if they use those collapsible metal sjamboks or just regular metal rods and billy clubs.
Essentially, they are the scum of the earth and if they were active within the USA would be aligned with the most violent fascist and white racist domestic terrorists, the ones the FBI lists as the most dangerous ongoing current threat.
Imagine an entire country on our borders ruled by their equivalent (Hamas) shooting missiles, mortars, drones, attempting infiltrations to blow up shopping centers, etc.
I moot that hypothetical to suggest the stark contrast between Americans who served in wars thousands of miles away advising Israel to "just declare a permanent ceasefire with Hamas! Sure Hamas terrorists embed themselves within civilian infrastructure, including hospitals, under the cities in hundreds of miles of sophisticated tunnels costing billions financed with funds they stole from UN and EU and other 'humanitarian aid,' but just negotiate with them! Don't try to destroy them as far as that's possible, rehabilitate them! Be on the best of terms with them whenever possible!" blah blah blah.
To me, all that sincere, well-meaning advice sounds totally disconnected from the real world, as deranged as Marjorie Taylor Green and Trump - just the intent, the sincerity, the old fashioned good will and peace towards men and women and children , is different.
Hamas could end this war NOW by [1} Declaring a unilateral ceasefire - laying down their arms and calling on Israel to immediately transition into doing the same and [2] Releasing all their hostages without conditions. But expecting their victims to stop engaging in vigorous self-defense, to track down the mass murderers, is not going to happen. Netanyahu voted out, excellent! Hamas (or Iranian proxy Hizbollah) launches another large terrorist attack targeting civilians? Guess what: whoever is elected to replace Netanyahu will be responding vigorously, bombing the bases, even IF they have to drop the same leaflets, make the same warning calls, to the hapless civilians to flee.
Israel probably saw an opportunity to push back on Iran for its support of Hamas and Hezbollah, and took it. The timing can be criticized, but the Netenyahu gov’t may have calculated it would draw attention away from Gaza and dampen US criticism of Israel if Iran then reacted. That Iran publicly state the missiles and drones last night were the extent of its response indicates Iran doesn’t want to escalate this further. Up to Israel now to take the next step.
Turns out I should have given you more credit than National Public Radio, this morning, Monday, April 15, those two terrorist plotters were described as "two Iranian leaders," and since it was in the Iranian embassy in Damascus, casual listeners could even draw the conclusion it was "two Iranian diplomats"!
Amen
I see that we should protect American facilities and personel, but Israel has one of the most powerful militaries in the world. They can take care of themselves. We have given them the finest weapons in the world and funds to purchase more. I know some will not like this, but Israel needs to stop the killing of innocent women and children. The Zionists need to stop their apartheid policies. I am not against Israel, but they have the ability to defend themselves from much weaker terrorist groups. We do not need to be involved. The 10/7 attack was a tragedy. However, Israel has had their revenge by killing innocent civilians. It is time to stop. Again, some of you will not like my comment, but I have been in one meaningless war and we do not need another. I will not have a further comment.
I agree with you 100%!
It was time for Israel to stop over 5 months ago!
Israel Yzaguirre—You're 100 per cent right.
Couldn’t agree with you more.
with you
(1) The "Apartheid" smear is simply false, Israel doesn't fit that model no matter how often it is repeated and [2] Israel has targeted HAMAS TERRORISTS in a legal fashion in time of war, this has led to over 15,000 Hamas terrorist embedded in the civilian population being killed, so much for your "revenge by killing innocent civilians" smear, which also fails.
This entire war and every single death is directly the responsibility of Hamas as a Terrorist State, which could end the war tomorrow, immediately by [1] Declaring a unilateral ceasefire and [2] Releasing their hostages, from the small children to the elderly man in his eighties.
THOSE are your "innocent victims," along with every last citizen of Gaza murdered in cold blood by Hamas fanatics trying unsuccessfully to steal food and medicine to continue their terrorism. And all blown to smithereens by Islamic Jihad's inept missiles falling in Gaza. Don't enable it by reversing the causality: it's HAMAS and Islamic Jihad who engaged in illegal aggressive warfare, who refuse to allow their own citizens any voice at all, ever, in any way, to assent or dissent, and who instead deploy those civilians as "human shields," really more like "human sacrifices." Hamas has to be defeated, anything short of that only sets up and even worse war of terrorism in the near future.
Your personal history in a meaningless war has absolutely no bearing on any salient, relevant point in this entire discussion. It gives you no moral authority to surrender on behalf of Israelis or Gazans, to the Hamas terrorists.
Do you see now?
Few moments in its history have so completely exposed the decay of the United Nations into a labyrinth of anti-American bureaucracies as Hamas’s October 7 massacre. In Gaza, we see evidence of the UN Relief and Works Agency and World Health Organization complicit in Hamas war crimes, while others like the World Food Programme parrot Hamas propaganda. In New York and Geneva, from the Security Council and UN Women to the Human Rights Council and the WHO, groups refuse to condemn Hamas and its crimes against humanity — their condemnation is reserved solely for the victims of the largest massacre of Jews since the Holocaust. The UN secretary-general himself may go down as the greatest enabler of this blatant antisemitism.
Threats to U.S. interests coming from the UN system are not confined to antisemitism, Israel, or Hamas. Since establishing FDD’s International Organizations Program, FDD scholars have documented how China, Russia, Iran, North Korea, and other U.S. adversaries exploit the UN system to undermine the United States. The January 2021 monograph From Trump to Biden outlined a strategy of using American leverage inside international organizations to counter U.S. adversaries.1 A June 2021 monograph, A Better Blueprint for International Organizations, explained how the United States could condition aid to win concrete reforms at a dozen UN agencies.2 Instead, the Biden administration is repeating the mistakes of the Obama administration — insisting that engagement and diplomatic niceties could advance reform without asserting U.S. pressure or utilizing our outsized leverage. This strategy has failed.
You, Mr Richard Turnbull, can always be relied upon to roar out your self satisfied, tubthumping opinions in that aggravating tone that some men take, as if their opinions are the only ones with a shred of truth, and everyone who doesn't agree 100% with you is a pathetic fool. In fact an enormous number of credible, rational, admirable Jewish people, many of whose parents died in the Nazi Holocaust, don't agree with you either, and plainly deliniate the difference between Zionism and Judaism. You don't seem to be all that clear about the history of Israel and Palestine, either. I note that you never once say the word "Zionism". Why is that?
Geeze, don't get him started.
Mr. Turnbull has a knack for believing his personal opinions and he should not be taken too seriously. Let's just hope the Zionist do not bite off they can chew and that the US is not drawn into this unjust conflict. Thank you for your comment.
Where do you get off casting these as "my personal opinions," as if (1) They aren't widely shared and supported by mountains of credible evidence and (2) YOU somehow do NOT "have a knack for believing your personal opinions"?
Who on earth proceeds like this, refusing to make any attempt whatsoever to refute one single particle of the case against Hamas and for Israel I made, also allowing that Netanyahu is horrible, also allowing that it IS possible the case is flawed, sure, but WHERE is it flawed?
Why should anyone take your failures to do other than launch the apartheid smear, the genocide smear, etc. as proof you are just a trolling, unserious commentator on this, I'll bet you can't even define "Zionism"!
Of course the term is ambiguous as hell - I would define it simply as the ideology that Jews has a right to a national homeland just like everyone else, and that homeland is the State of Israel, but you're using it tendentiously, in the mode of a troll who wants to surreptitiously question Israel's right to exist.
LOL, persona invective always amuses me, thanks! And sexist bigotry is even better, my longtime feminist commitments (going back over fifty years) leave me singularly unscathed by that kind of inane trolling, though. It's just pathetic to realize how frenzied and self-righteous people can get anonymously online - you of course have NO IDEA of the hundreds and hundreds (more like thousands) of hours I have spent over many decades, wrestling sincerely with these issues - but you feel empowered to unsuccessfully try to insult me?
Here's your answer:
Because "Zionism" and the views of some other people unnamed who are not on here making any relevant arguments have NO LOGICAL BEARING on anything in my comments, none whatsoever. This entire set of circumstances could be moved into the Amazonian Rainforest and every single important distinction between the warring parties would remain intact: Hamas and Israel just happen to be the entities involved.
Your political and moral nous is juvenile and obtuse, are you happy now?
I am blocking you, something I almost never do, on any website, but for inane trolls, it's different.
I thought you were opposed to personal invective!
Oh, I see, not even an apology?
"I was wrong, I misunderstood the concept application, thanks for educating me about this practically omnipresent issue in human discussions"?
So far none of you in the "consensus majority" (that Israel is something something massively something Gaza dead something, it's always globally vague complaints that I see as complaints that Israel is winning the specific part of the war against Hamas they understand: eliminating the Hamas terrorists with as little killing of their human shields as possible) are really at sea once you are challenged to show Hamas isn't an existential threat to Israel's national security on their border, and we would do exactly the same thing if a terrorist state on our borders killed some 40,000 Americans in one day - albeit, probably less carefully, so the civilian toll would be higher.
But for sure: we would determinedly seek out the terrorists and kill them, case closed.
What? It's an ad hominem fallacy embedded in a sophistical debating trick, Susan - not only did I never state that "all personal invective in all circumstances is a bad thing," sometimes it's the only fair and reasonable way to describe a person's behavior, or their character!
But it can clearly be deployed as part of a paralogical reasoning process, as here, by K. Stavrou:
First, the person with no substantive rebuttal starts a personal attack, THEN when the person attacked describes the nature of their invective accurately (here, it was some stereotyping of males, along with "self-satisfied, aggravating," which are descriptions of her own emotive states since she's frustrated by having, again, NO SUBSTANTIVE REBUTTAL, then she caricatures that as "as if everyone who doesn't agree 100% with you is a pathetic fool," which is laughable - where's the substantive rebuttal to which I am supposed to be struck with the shining light of revelation to make me realize, oh my GOD, how could I make the very basic arguments that millions of people make about this war, they are obviously mistaken! Not only that, how DARE I demand that everyone agree with me 100%, which I must have done somewhere...let me see, Kathy Stavrou said it, and in such as reasonable tone, too! Not in a smug, self-satisfied, tub-thumping way, which I can "always be relied upon" to evince - I mean, in all my hundreds (actually thousands by now) of comments, really? Wow, K. Stavrou has such intense comprehension of all the nuances in all my comments, she's able to flatten them all out and distill this terrible essence - or, wait, is it only about the Israelis and Israel she gets excited about?
Well, be that as it may, K. Stavrou is informing me that somehow or other, the blatantly obvious distinction between Zionism and Judaism is crucial to my arguments, and I failed to even mention Zionism! Aha! That must be where I went wrong!
So now all she would have to do is to explain why that completely irrelevant distinction IN THE CONTEXT OF THESE ARGUMENTS is in fact, relevant! Or why what Holocaust survivors believe, or imagine is going on, or hear from relatives in Israel, can have to do with the soundness or lack of soundness of those arguments!
You need to refute the arguments as they are stated, not in the form of some tendentious caricature, she failed completely at that, so this time I blocked her.
Here's one last example: "Donald Trump is a lying fraudster and a sexual abuser." THAT is personal invective, but it is NOT an instance of an ad hominem fallacy.
https://www.txst.edu/philosophy/resources/fallacy-definitions/ad-hominem.html
:-)
What are you, 10 years old? Blocked for being too inane and semantically challenged to accept even as a viable, amusing troll.
It's difficult for the West to grasp the adherence to and the role of martyrdom in the region as well as the region's unadulterated quest for revenge. Will say all the parties are reasonable up until the first slight. From there it is full-throttle madness.
While many might argue could this start WW3 the answer is best put this way, this is just another weekend in the region.
yeah martyrdom and revenge
And it is a very strange dynamic at work for the martyrdom trip: use your "sacred texts" to rant relentlessly about (1) Unbelievers, who deserve pretty much any kind of horrific retributions, (2) Women, who are systematically devalued, disrespected, even demonized to some extent, and (3) Another set of religious beliefs (Judaism) with which your belief system shares a huge amount of doctrines and key figures and even shared ancestry, but somehow spinning their alleged shortcomings for "rejecting The Prophet of God /Allah," such that they emerge as demonic figures, all of which prepares the wild-eyed, essentially brainwashed or "self-hypnotized" martyrs to cavort with incomparably lovely women after they die in martyrdom operations against (1) and (3)!
It's like something out of a satirical cartoon about religious thinking gone berserk, yet those who manage to only pay attention to the extensive positive textual injunctions in the texts (the Koran and Haditha) for peace, compassion, fair treatment (of fellow believers, well, except for women) and other universally shared good behavior, just forge ahead anyway.
We are all blessed, atheists, believers, agnostics, heretics, religious teachers, by the deep common sense of common people, and their - our - shared instinct to just try to be a good person, good people, forget the martyrdom exhortations, forget being mean to those who who believe differently, forget disrespecting women, forget all ranting dogma.
Cf. Cafeteria Catholics, another stalwart example of similar common sense!
We need a few licks from your harp, Richard.
I was outdoors behind Coffman Memorial Union* , facing on the Mississippi River this Saturday afternoon, commencement ceremonies already underway for some professional programs, people of all sorts wandering all over that sprawling campus, had my Special 20s in a case, WAY WAY too blustery to even play them, though.
* When this building opened in 1940 it was the largest student union in the USA (and maybe the world). For only journalism course I took at Macalester, Cathe C. and I went to the "Gopher Whole Coffeehouse" to do our assigned interview project. Willa Mae "Big Mama" Thornton, we sipped some of her Jack Daniels in paper cups, before the gig, she explained the whole "Hound Dog" ripoff by Elvis's manager, etc., (that was my first question, she had plenty more of interest to say, too) - also on the bill: Harmonica George Smith, didn't interview him. I did see him again 6 or 7 years later at So's Your Mother in Des Moines (Drake U. campus midwestern blues circuit bar, people like Son Seals, Fenton Robinson, Mose Allison, many many more played there.
*https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coffman_Memorial_Union
" On May 4, 1970, the same day as the Kent State shootings, protesters started occupying Coffman 24 hours a day which lasted for a month. In May of 1972, the largest demonstrations at the university took place in response to President Richard Nixon's announcement that the United States would begin to blockade and mine North Vietnam's harbors. On May 10, over 6,000 protesters gathered at Coffman for a rally that included former United States Congressman Eugene McCarthy.[3]"
Recovering Catholic for me
Kinda like when Genghis Kahn and sons were reducing Muslim populations.
same~same
So peculiar as we watch like a fireworks show in July. Very unreal. Remarkable (and not Biden’s fault actually though I’ll blame my paper cut on him in a heartbeat)an eerie.
Have we warned other countries not to interfere?
Or Is this the’”spark? Or yet another Iranian burp.
lol
Can add my 2cents, went fishing the other day and caught nothing because under Biden even the fish are emboldened. Or perhaps all the illegals Biden let in caught all the fishies.
At your leisure, I think we could all use some ancient wisdom. Spirit is your true reality.
My favorite Mexican food restaurant has the best fish.
Yeah Was going to inquire what Shadowcoud was fishing for and was it a lake or the ocean. Expedition over.
Fish dont bite when rain is pouring from shadowcloud.
Migration is a natural thing for most all species. I worked the fields with Braceros y Mojados in the 50 and 60's.
Biden isnt any quilter than all the politicians since 1846.
Los Mexicanos referred to me as
Gringo pata saldo y El rojo.
Trump's illegals come to fish here to fill empty bellies, America's mega-rich often go to Mexico to "sport" fish.
Niithah sport fishing nor trophy hunting (animal or hooman) is a sport.
<f'n dead>
Excuse me, but this Iranian attack is a direct result of Israel attacking Iran's embassy in Syria in order to kill a few Iranian generals. Were these guys really that irreplaceable? And I thought that embassies were supposed to be safe places under international law. We have to ask what the politics of that stupid attack really were. Yet Biden once again gives Israel carte blanc to act without consulting us.
Israel launched that strike (purportedly) against U.S. advice.
If so, then this is not much of an alliance. Rather it is more like the relationship Stalin had with his satellite nations.
Once Netanyahu chose to ally himself with the religious extremist (west bank illegal settlement fanaticism) and with the demented support of idiot Trump to claim Jerusalem (a city historically religiously integrated between Muslims, Christian’s and Jews) as the capital of Israel things have changed in Israel. The Israelis are not a monolithic group - except and rightly so - in service to the defense of their repeatedly attacked country (interestingly however that the extreme religious right wing is exempt from military service). Those that I know dislike Netanyahu, his corruption and his mentality.
All true, both Hamas AND Netanyahu have to go! Only the means and the timing is up for discussion.
An ally is just an enemy who has not yet declared himself. E.g. Hitler/Stalin.
And without telling US they were doing it according to reports.
Yes.
When ya kill 10x more folks than your opponent, ya automatically lose the War. In this case, it’s about 30x.
Israel has already lost this War.
And Israel’s continuing attacks by Settlers in the West Bank, and upon its neighbors….accomplishing nothing (may I repeat—nothing), are a Shonda for the Jews.
Israel has been hijacked by Bibi and his co-conspirators. How can I put this mildly — they are fucking themselves.
So it is tumbleweeds *** and crickets ***.
Most of the Palestinian Gazan casualties are Hamas terrorists, prove me wrong!
Oh that's right, for you to even attempt a real proof of that, or that your weird theory that killing more of the enemy than the enemy kills of your population "means you lose" isn't incoherence on a Trumpian level, would mean admitting that some proportion of the 30, 000 +
ARE in fact Hamas terrorists.
The estimates are about 1/2, makes sense since the Israeli intel on this kind of tracking was not the problem exposed on October 7 - they could figure out the actual targets among Hamas and not the over two million other Gaza residents. So about 15-17 thousand Hamas terrorists dead, leaves maybe another 5-6 thousand estimated, mostly around Rafah.
Go ahead and list the number of Hamas terrorists in that figure - out of the roughly 30-33 thousand, how many?
It’s in fact one of the most successfully targeted demolitions of a terrorist organization in recent history - unless you have a better example.
The rest of your comment I agree with, that’s the difference, I also want Netanyahu OUT, but the war against Hamas is not only already a major military victory, any Israeli leader who replaces Netanyahu and is attacked on the same scale by Hizbollah or some version of “Islamic Jihad” from the West Bank, will also respond similarly: Warn all the civilians to flee, through leaflets and texts and phone messages, then seek out the terrorists and kill them.
It’s not exactly rocket surgery, it has nothing to do per se with Israel and THEIR local and surrounding terrorists, it’s what any state anywhere (that even cared at all about the terrorists’ civilian bases, that is!) would end up doing as well as they could. Ukraine is doing it in a different form against THEIR aggressive invading terrorists, given the Russian modus operandi.
I've been watching it on MSNBC! So far, no damage and no casualties is what I heard so far! What a Saturday night and hope it doesn't turn into WWIII! I wonder what SNL will be like later.
Will wait until the sun rises because those stationary camera shots only capture a tiny fraction of Israel.
Have message for all Americans favoring great Mother Russia plan presented by fearless leader Vlad "Never Sad" Putin, be happy, we are now looking at World War Four so please catch up.
Was First Imperialist world war, end when Russian Bolsheviks declare Tsar and war out, peace and bread is in, have new revolution and 3rd International victory for workers and peasants. Second war we liberate Europe from Nazis till Americans and Brits and French reactionaries fail to help us, join Uncle Joe Stalin plan for humanity's salvation, so we get third world war: so-called Cold War.
Cold war is lost in worst disaster in human history, we Russians have to organize for Fourth world war, like in Georgia, in Chechnya, we reclaim Crimea stolen by Ukrainian Nazis! Now we aim for rest of Ukraine which is rightfully ours! Also be informed,
Russian State TV Wants Moscow to Conquer Three US States*
Published Apr 13, 2024 at 10:30 AM EDT
"I want the Russian empire with Alaska, Hawaii, California, Finland, and Poland," he said, as translated by Gerashchenko for the clip he shared. "Although Poland and Finland are so stinky, I'm not sure, to be honest. We'll clean them."
Now that this is clear to you Ms. Botwinick (similar to name of great Russian Chess Champion of the World Mikhail, thank you very much!) you can stop worrying about World War Three and sleep soundly!
*https://www.newsweek.com/russian-state-tv-wants-moscow-conquer-three-us-states-1890051
Yeah. And tomorrow MTG will livestream for her bathroom and claim Space aliens from Mergatroid responsible. And their fearless astronaut Yogi Bear Is in charge. And you know he's still alive. Because of deep state cryogenics who's ranking physician Dr. Spock will mid meld with the enemy--The U.S. Constitution. Maga will be certain Yogi Bear is really alive not animated. Margatroid being controlled the Libs
I haven’t been following events in the ME very closely of late, and may have things all wrong. Do we know what Israel’s rationale was for attacking the Iranian embassy (without telling Washington in advance)? It’s not out of the realm of possibility that Yahoo wanted to provoke an Iranian attack, as is happening this moment, to get the Israeli aid bill through Congress, to make himself a war time leader, to keep his butt out of prison, to attempt regaining a smidgeon of the moral high ground. As ridiculous as that is. The Gaza war hasn’t worked out well for him or Israel, never mind what it’s done to the Palestinians, and so a full out Iranian attack, even provoked, makes Israel look like a sort-of victim. What a barbaric thing to do! I also think Yahoo is trying to suck us into a war with Iran. That’s not so far fetched either, but I have confidence in Biden not to take that bait. Yahoo is truly evil, and for how much longer will the Israelis tolerate him. For how much longer will we tolerate him.
Thank you, Lucian. I have friends with relatives in Israel, as I do too. Thank goodness for the Iron Dome to thwart off those drones! I heard Sec’y of Defense, Lloyd Austin, was none too happy with Yoav Galant, his Israeli counterpart for not informing him or his staff of their plans. Galant is as dangerous as Bibi.
Russia will back Iran if Israel fires on Iran. Not sure though how much extra military power is available that is not in Ukraine. I felt this was inevitable due to Israel's devastation of Gaza. There is much I haven't kept up on as far as internecine conflicts in the ME. It just seems to be escalating lately; I hope without international repercussions. I, too, am thankful we have leadership in DC with experience and calm heads.
If you had true leadership in Washington since before Netanyahu's time, none of this would have happened.
How so? Admittedly foreign policy, being the prerogative of the office of the presidency, has been reactive by necessity. The one thing we likely did better than anything though was our stated and determined support of Israel. Apart from the humanitarian imperative given what we witnessed in WW2, confronting the dismal partitioning of the ME by the ‘great powers’ Israel as a nation state giving a homeland to the Jewish people of all nations, in a land where they’ve never abandoned and lived in for thousands of years, made sense. Washington wasn’t imposing any restrictions on their support, the alliance spoken or unspoken was they would be steadfast allies, a base of democracy in the ME. Circumstances and persistant attacks create their own climate. As such it’s never been, as such, a vassal state.
Leadership without foreign intervention, is what I meant. Think Russia is bad? Israel has most of the politicians in DC on its payroll. There is nothing grand or democratic about it. It's a terrible state of affairs.
Every country on earth has a lobbyist in DC. Every corporation does.
It’s a sickness. Unfortunately it’s legal.
Aipac is not registered as a foreign lobby though it represents a foreign government.
I happen to have respect for the Russian people btw.
Simple solution is up to HAMAS, you know, the internationally designated terrorists running Gaza?
[1} They declare a unilateral ceasefire, [2} Release all the hostages with no cute preconditions, none, zero, nada, as they have absolutely no right in their role as international gangsters who kidnap people for ransom, to insist on ANYTHING.
Well, apart from fair trials and defense attorneys in their war crimes trials - the same as any Israelis credibly accused of committing war crimes!
As a J.D., you should be aware that many (hundreds?) of Palestinians and Israeli Arab citizens are held in inefinite detention without trial.
There's also this crackpot figure floating around, is THIS the figure you saw?
"700, 000 Palestinian prisoners"?
camera-uk.org/2023/09/21/guardian-repeats-700000-palestinian-prisoners-lie/
September 21, 2023
GUARDIAN REPEATS ‘700,000 PALESTINIAN PRISONERS’ LIE
by Adam Levick
On Sept. 21, the Guardian published an extract from a soon to be released book (A Day in the Life of Abed Salama: A Palestine Story) by Nathan Thrall. Thrall is an American author and anti-Israel propagandist who, CAMERA has shown, condones Palestinian terrorism as an effective means to chase Israel out of the West Bank.
The section of Thrall’s book published by the Guardian focuses on the early to mid-2000s, and the plight of a Palestinian woman named Huda Dahbour and her family – including her son Hadi, who was imprisoned around that time. Though nothing written by someone who endorses violence should surprise us, it’s still notable that Thrall actually attempts to attribute both a brain haemorrhage Huda suffered from and needed surgery to repair, as well as her divorce, on the stress from, yes, Israel’s occupation.
Thrall’s references to young Palestinians who served time in Israeli prison also omits the context of terror from the equation, and, at one point, uncritically cites a claim “that the presence [of soldiers] of seemed designed to provoke the [Palestinian] students so they could then arrest as many of them as possible”. He also accuses the IDF of brutality and even torture of young Palestinian suspects without providing evidence. {More}
An upvote for an excellent start, you generated a sort of vague premise for a possibly cogent argument!
[I left graduate school in philosophy at the U. of Minnesota - Twin Cities to get that J.D., your post brings back memories of inchoate logical arguments, isn't this fun?]
Now since the difference between "many" and "hundreds" won't do and also shows a worrisome lack of confidence - we both want to craft the strongest form of your incipient claim, you to make some sort of attack on the legal bona fides of locking
"Palestinians and Israeli Arab citizens" indefinitely without trial, and I to first evaluate the suspects (would their release in any given individual instance allow an even worse imminent national security threat of more mass murders of civilians committed by the same suspects? Are the cases being stymied by other alleged terrorists?)
I might still decide they, or any single one of them at least, should be released anyway! That's what we want to find out, correct Mr. Dooley? They are in prison, so should they be released? If they have a record of blowing up buildings elsewhere, or as co-conspirators, maybe Jordan doesn't want them back, maybe they have police records of terroristic threats but were arrested before acting on them, who knows?
You need to make a specific, detailed, cogent, lucid, relevant argument with sound premises and a validly inferred conclusion! Who knows, I might agree with it, and ask you about Lincoln suspending habeas corpus in a time of war, or not.*
But so far, we don't know how many there are or who they are or what they did, so you go ahead and cite AT LEAST ONE NAME with the details of whatever circumstances about the arrest are available, we will turn that case into a real logical argument, and go from there, fair enough?
*
https://www.nps.gov/foth/learn/historyculture/the-lincoln-conspirators.htm
NPS.govPark HomeLearn About the ParkHistory & CulturePeopleThe Lincoln Conspirators
The Lincoln Conspirators
[Engravings of 9 portraits of the conspirators, arranged in a circle with Mrs. Surratt at center.
Engravings of the conspirators tried in connection with Lincoln's murder. From the frontispiece to Benn Pittman's "The Trial of the Conspirators" (1865). Dr. Mudd is missing as the author did not have a likeness of him to include.]
In the two weeks following the assassination, hundreds of individuals were detained, questioned, and in some cases imprisoned, as federal agents tried to determine who was responsible for the assassination of President Lincoln. The investigators settled on ten individuals they believed were responsible for the crime. One, John Wilkes Booth himself, had been cornered and killed on Garrett's farm on April 26, 1865. Another, John Surratt, had fled the country and would not be tried until 1867. The remaining eight were charged in the conspiracy and tried by a military tribunal. Testimony from 366 witnesses took seven weeks, and at the conclusion, four of the accused were sentenced to hang, and the other four sentenced to imprisonment (three for life at hard labor, and one, Ned Spangler, for six years). Many others who assisted Booth in the plot or in his escape were brought in for questioning, but were released due to lack of evidence. ******
On April 14, 1865, Abraham Lincoln, the 16th president of the United States, was assassinated by John Wilkes Booth while attending the play Our American Cousin at Ford's Theatre in Washington, D.C. Shot in the head as he watched the play,[2] Lincoln died of his wounds the following day at 7:22 am in the Petersen House opposite the theater.[3] He was the first U.S. president to be assassinated.[4] His funeral and burial were marked by an extended period of national mourning.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assassination_of_Abraham_Lincoln
***** Here's another hypothetical - it's 159 years later, what if the Civil War had dragged on inconclusively for another twenty years: these defendants in the conspiracy to assassinate President Lincoln who are under arrest, claim they have exculpatory evidence that will prove their innocence (as for instance, that they were coerced with death threats themselves to participate) but the persons who know that are still alive and fighting for the Confederacy. Should they be executed anyway? Held for their adjudicate sentences, then released?
Thanks again for showing signs of critical thinking, we need more of that, we can both agree!
Thoughts at large after watching events unfold... don't claim to be an expert ...
Hamas attacks 7 Oct – murderous, savage killing spree with unspeakable atrocities
Netanyahu and his government vow reprisals and revenge, including claims, echoed in some US circles, that there are no innocent Gazans
Prior to this, Qatar had sent millions of dollars to Hamas through Israel and with Israeli government compliance. As verified later by defense minister, this money was an attempt to split Hamas from West Bank Palestinians so as to prevent a united front for two state solution
It seems Israeli government figured Hamas had been effectively bought off with payment, as Israel focused efforts on preparing for attack from Lebanon. The number of Israeli soldiers listening to Hamas radio comms before the attack had been significantly reduced. After 7 Oct, there were reports that Hamas dead had the types of comm equipment with them that Israeli listening posts would have been monitoring had there not been a reduction in the number of listeners.
Israel warns Gazans to evacuate before military assault – very hard for millions to move quickly and the counterattack began soon after the warning.
War has evolved into massive destruction and loss of life in Gaza. Hamas has suffered thousands of casualties, but the civilian population, including children, have suffered greatly and is on the verge of starvation. The massive counterattack and destruction have not stopped Hamas from launching missiles toward Israel nor has it prompted release of hostages. Is part of the Israeli response anger that Hamas attacked despite being funded with Israeli compliance?
To be sure, genocide is hard to prove. But one does not need to be caught up in legal wrangling over whether this is genocide to believe that the Israeli response is disproportionate. And it seems to me, counterproductive.
A former Israeli Chief of Staff warned that individuals may seek revenge, but that government cannot. What leaders say matter – and if you state and believe that there are no innocent Gazans, then this wholesale destruction is what you get.
While simultaneously replenishing Israeli ammo stocks, the US has been begging, urging,pleading etc.. with Israel for months to prevent civilian losses while hunting down Hamas. Israel has not listened. That same former Israeli Chief of Staff claims that Israeli soldiers have become hardened toward the population, and that lives have lost meaning. He also added that more former Israeli officers have been questioning the apparent lack of an endgame strategy by the current hard line government.
Those Gazans who have trekked back north have seen their homes destroyed and cities reduced to rubble. Even if as a Gazan you did not like Hamas, is it beyond the pale to think that a new version of Hamas will rise from the ruins to take revenge against Israel? That’s what I mean by counterproductive strategy.
The daughter of former Israeli Prime Minister Shimon Peres believes that there must be a two-state solution.
Israel’s launching of a strike in the Syrian capital of Damascus, as a counter to missile launches by Hezbollah from Lebanon, killed key Iranian officials and prompted this latest attack from Iran. I find it ironic that US officials labeled the Iranian response with hundreds of weapon systems “disproportionate.” (Which it was). Note that US forces stationed in the area also helped shoot down Iranian missiles, drones, etc… so we are more involved than ever in this latest escalation.
Is Iran funding and supporting Hezbollah, Hamas, and Houthis? Yes
Does Iran wish to see Israel destroyed? Yes
Does Hamas leadership want a two-state solution? No
Does the current Israeli leadership want a two-state solution? No
Is the current Israeli method of retaliating against Gaza counterproductive? Yes
It seems only a regional league of the US, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, and the emirates can bring Israel and Hamas to the table to work out a solution. This is not something that can be fixed simply by military means, nor can it be addressed with pithy statement designed to generate heat and not light.
Well-said.
Affirms unjustified war is a circular series of hooman, errors, miscalculations, bad judgment, a single order of effect, thinking, and most of all a mindset of war is winnable if only the other side capitulates.
So, it's less about lessons learned and far more about that which was never unlearned. Am grateful this mess is happening under a Democratic Adm, w/the President/CinC who has lived a life filled with unjust wars, a female VP who brings a wimmin's POV into the decision tree, and a SECDEF who knows well unjust wars only serve to bring forth another.
Now as to Trump's constant refrain of this (choose any of many) wouldn't have occurred if I was President. Only fools think that way. Only the foolish buy that. No person can claim if they were involved history would unfold exactly as they claim it would. Changes to history are unknowable whether it be Trump's big talk or those predicting how history woulda' unfolded if JFK or RFK wasn't assassinated. Trying to map out a different history is the worst use of the hooman brain and of time ever. That includes in one's own life.
No person can change the past, all people can change the future by what they do in the present.
"The future is past"
There are times it is. Keep in mind the one thing no person can ever catch up to is tomorrow.
Seems to me that if Israel counter attacks Iran there's a danger of WWIII (if we're not already in it in slow motion) and if they do nothing they will be seen as weakened and more will come. There's a side of this that suggests that maybe it's time for Israel to target just the Mullahs and single out the leaders of these religious fanatics and end it once and for all.
end what once and for all? this is not a video game.
To me "The Palestinian Problem" is a long, nasty, murderous soap opera which has been playing for 75 of my years. But it goes on because it has some rich sponsors who accept any Israeli script: every U.S. President, from Truman on.
How can that be accomplished?
Keep in mind that there are lsraeli leaders who are more aggressive than Bibi. The region is a tinderbox which is why the stakes are so high. Descolation is unrealistic in a nation that was formed out of the ashes of near-complete annihilation.
The per-capita population ratio between Jews and Muslins staggering. And certainly Palestinians are winning the public relations contest.
If the price of liberty is eternal vigilance, we are up to our necks in debt! But the alternative is unacceptable. There’s enough room and resources, the difficulty is developing and maintaining neighbors you can trust. And if you can’t trust your neighbors, you’ve got to make friends abroad! And if you’re being attacked, you have a duty to defend yourself.
Slnce Iran has stated more than once their desire for the complete destruction of Israel, I wondering if thought crossed Netanyahu's mind that if they (Iran) had the bomb right now would one of those missiles have had a nuclear warhead, and will that happen in the future? They might be thinking this would be a good time to make sure that never happens.
As Charlie Pierce says 'this will not end well.'