Let’s begin our descent into this black hole of legal religiosity with the story of the resignation on Tuesday of Pastor Robert Morris from his perch at the pulpit of the massive Gateway Church in the Dallas, Texas suburb known as Southlake. Two days ago, Morris, who founded the megachurch in 2000, was forced to resign after it became known last week that he had sexually abused a 12-year-old girl on Christmas night in 1982 at a so-called “youth revival.” The abuse continued for the next five years, according to the victim, Cindy Clemishire.
I don't even remember who said this, but it has never been more appropriate in this day of Christian statism and hypocrisy: "I'd be a Christian if it weren't for the Christians".
Gandhi is supposed to have said something similar. If I remember correctly, in his autobiography he says that trying with sincerity to be a good Christian in his barrister days allowed him to understand his inherited faith for the first time. It is said he kept copies of the Bhagavad Gita and the Christian Bible on his bedside table.
Yes, the thing with his nieces was pretty bizarre. He writes fairly honestly about his struggles with his lower chakras. I think he says that one of the hardest things for him to forgive himself for was that, while his father was dying, he was dallying downstairs with his wife.
He was a strange creature. The title of his autobiography is “The Story of My Experiments With Truth”.
I've always liked his response to "What do you think of Western Civilization?" He replied "I think it would be a good idea." It may be apocryphal, but I'm sticking with it.
Good point. I've worked in mental health and health care most of my life and met people from some pretty abusively dysfunctional families. I would save their stories for the worst expressions of that genre. But, hey, that's just me...
Yeah, I picked up on that too. I think it was a case of the wrong word being used. Or if something else was implied, such as ones actual immwdiate family, it wasn't made clear.
I was in the 6th grade, 11-years old, when the Supreme Court outlawed prayer in school. It was a relief for me because my teacher was a Christian religious fanatic. She wasn’t really teaching school. She was teaching Sunday school. The day started with her giving a prayer that lasted about an hour. Then she read the Bible for a few hours. Then she gave a sermon, more prayers. She announced that if anyone didn’t want to pray and do Sunday school stuff we could go out in the hall, put our hands over our faces and stand in a corner, all day long. I came to hate “Christians”. Still do today.
Thank you for your response. I went to school in Roslyn, New York and we were largely a Jewish community (I used to be Catholic until I could no longer bear the hypocrisy) and we were so universally accepting and I still revel in that.
What you describe in your school would have never been tolerated in my school and I'm proud to say that. I also proudly say that I was Cantor Belink's Left Hand Boy, and I can still sing Bloch's Sacred Service without a score, and have gone to more Bar Mitzvah's, Bat/Bas Mitzvah's, Seders and have sat Shiva more than any Jewish person you ever met, yet I'm still a Christian. The Jewish people made me what I am---------- well, maybe they facilitated in me becoming who I am------- and I will be forever grateful to the opportunities I was given. If you want an idea of what Roslyn Schools were like, here is a synopsis of a movie they made about us called "Bad Education"
I grew up in Great Neck, not far from Roslyn and went to several restaurants there. We had to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and I refused to say it because it wasn't true! I also refused to hide under my desk when we had air raid drills saying it wasn't going to help me! Always a rebel and I still am!
I know Great Neck very, very well. Spinny Hill and all. Did you go to Great Neck North or Great Neck South. I know I don't have to tell you about the difference between the two of them. Ah, but North had all the great restaurants and shopping on Northern Blvd. I'll bet you ate at Patricia Murphy's and had their famous popovers. I never had that opportunity.
Did you know that Lucian lived on Long Island, farther east, but still on the North Shore.
Fetzer, I grew up in Lenoir, NC and our junior high made bible study part of the curriculum. My parents, both Holocaust victims, opted out for that for both my sister and me. Thank goodness! We had a Baptist church on every corner!
What a colossal waste of time for you and your fellow students. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to suffer through that. Having heard your story I consider myself very fortunate to have gone through public schools in Pensacola, Florida in the 50's & 60's without that kind of religious indoctrination. Of course, by now, it's entirely possible things have changed for kids in Pensacola by now, but I hope not.
The Navy is where I first learned anything. It was a great education. I learned Arabic and became fluent, a whole lot of history of the Middle East and North Africa. I also learned Spanish and became fluent in German. I got to know people from all over the world. After I did my four years I went to college on the G.I. Bill. I get my healthcare from the Department of Veterans Affairs. I think enlisting or getting commissioned are some of the best things young people can do for themselves and their country.
Jun 21·edited Jun 21Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
It has been a very hard week for most people..floods, fires, tropical depressions, heat domes over New England, and other worldly phenomena that can be ascribed to man made climate change.
Then there was the 'drop a dime in the room and you can't hear a whisper' that 2 senior judges from the same judicial district as Aileen Cannon urged her to reconsider taking Trump's case-just because they felt it might be onerous for the very green judge to take on. She refused.
Then the Supreme Court is still dilly-dallying away on the issue of Trump's immunity, driving everyone on both sides absolutely insane, "Will they or won't they" and nobody knows why this has been so delayed, but right now the 10 Commandments being placed on class room walls for the state of Louisiana is just another drop in the already over-flowing bucket of ordure we've been smelling for the last 6 months.
So the pastor got a pass from his church on his sin. This is why people stop going to church-the sheer absolute utter hubris these people have in saying, "I repented my sins, I'm clean" is just so mind-boggling that it defies rationalization.
Just like the Catholic church used to do-sell those penances and have your sin wiped out with one hell of a donation to the parish..sickening.
I do know that if the girl had gotten pregnant, though, he would have paid for an abortion because that would be a real problem-fruits of the forbidden tree would be evidence in a rape trial. But hey, it's forgiven! God says so! So what if it's in Texas? He's a preacher-and they're special...
Yeah, religion is wonderful because it hides so many crimes that you'd never run out of stories.
But I'm really tired tonight after hearing all these news stories, and surviving a heat dome for 3 solid days that one of my favorite actors, Donald Sutherland, died today after a long illness at the age of 88.
Damn. No relief for the honest and upright people. We're getting slammed every which way but loose, and the real sinners are running the country.
It’s truly disgusting that this sexual predator masquerading as a pastor calls molesting a CHILD a “data point.” Is that what that church calls “repenting?!” There should be no statue of limitations on such a horrific crime. Sexual predators never abuse children in only one instance. Sadly, it’s almost certain she wasn’t his only victim.
It's just such a cliche by now, the pastor of a huge mega-church molesting children, it would actually be news to me to hear an example of one of these churches where molestation or financial fraud has yet to occur.
What I found the MOST disgusting is referring to a 12 year old GIRL, as a young woman! That man needs his head examined, not being "pardoned" or whatever his church has done. She will spend the rest of her life with what was done to her, and he just walks off into the sunset.
There are equivalents to the commandments in just about every worldwide religion. There are websites giving them. So sure, I’m good with posting them. All of them, side by side, so students can see how people of other cultures and faiths share these rules for decent societal behavior. They might even start to look at other cultures and traditions as similar, not inferior or “other.” My, my, wouldn’t that upset the apple cart.
I love it! So much more productive than yet another law suit! Instead of less speech, more speech. And dare I suggest it, more recognition of the hypocrisy of church "leaders"? Maybe? One can dream.
These are the same people who hold liberals in contempt for believing in the rule of law, caring for those less fortunate and supporting the right for women to choose, people to love and marry whom they choose, protect their children from bump stocks and assault weapons and a man with deep moral values to lead our Country.
Or executed. Yes, I said that and I know Lucian isn’t a fan of anyone recommending anything like this but damnit to hell! When does this shit against girls and women stop??
That the church forgave him doesn’t necessarily mean that the law will. This is still sexual abuse of a minor child. And there’s a recording. I hope he goes to jail, and finds out what other prisoners think of pedophiles.
Unfortunately there appears to be a problem with the statute of limitations, and it may not be possible to prosecute. However, I hope the victim and her family will consider a whopping civil suit.
Jun 21·edited Jun 21Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
Perhaps we could simply send them a copy of the Constitution, which, in their defense, they've obviously not seen. Yeah, it would have to be in large print and heavily notated, but it would be a start...
hypocrisy, much? It seems to be what the 'religious' right lives and breathes. The selfishness of the 'leaders' and self-preservation of their golden goose is all that matters. How do they dare call themselves Christians, men of god when they have no concern for the victim of the abuse? The hubris is breath taking. This and millions of other actions like it are what caused me to walk away from organized religion decades ago. Ghandi said it best: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I am outraged by our corrupt SCROTUS.Our recourse is of course at the ballot box.I am also so fearful that the results of this election be they a Biden landslide will be challenged by Trump and will be put into the putrid hands of this disgusting corrupt Court.
I'm a theist and I claim to be a Christian of some kind or another (NOT the obsequious boot licking trump sort) That said, I strenuously support the simple concept of Separation of Church and State. Haven't these hypocrites ever read The Establishment Clause?
Christianity. The penultimate abusively dysfunctional family...
I don't even remember who said this, but it has never been more appropriate in this day of Christian statism and hypocrisy: "I'd be a Christian if it weren't for the Christians".
Gandhi is supposed to have said something similar. If I remember correctly, in his autobiography he says that trying with sincerity to be a good Christian in his barrister days allowed him to understand his inherited faith for the first time. It is said he kept copies of the Bhagavad Gita and the Christian Bible on his bedside table.
Unfortunately Modi is trying to erase Gandi.
Of course
Gandhi is said to have sexually misbehaved with some of *his* followers.
Yes, the thing with his nieces was pretty bizarre. He writes fairly honestly about his struggles with his lower chakras. I think he says that one of the hardest things for him to forgive himself for was that, while his father was dying, he was dallying downstairs with his wife.
He was a strange creature. The title of his autobiography is “The Story of My Experiments With Truth”.
The gods work in mysterious venues
Th3 gods work in mysteries venues
I believe it something on the order of, “I like your Christ; your Christians, not so much.”
I've always liked his response to "What do you think of Western Civilization?" He replied "I think it would be a good idea." It may be apocryphal, but I'm sticking with it.
I think that quote was delivered in public, when Gandhi was visiting Great Britain, so has sound provenance!
Good to know!
Maybe a version of this, from the son of a Lutheran minister?
“I might believe in the Redeemer if his followers looked more redeemed.”
― Frederick Nietzsche
Why is it the second to last? What is the last?
penultimate: If something's the penultimate, then it's the second to last thing in a series.
Good point. I've worked in mental health and health care most of my life and met people from some pretty abusively dysfunctional families. I would save their stories for the worst expressions of that genre. But, hey, that's just me...
Yeah, I picked up on that too. I think it was a case of the wrong word being used. Or if something else was implied, such as ones actual immwdiate family, it wasn't made clear.
I was in the 6th grade, 11-years old, when the Supreme Court outlawed prayer in school. It was a relief for me because my teacher was a Christian religious fanatic. She wasn’t really teaching school. She was teaching Sunday school. The day started with her giving a prayer that lasted about an hour. Then she read the Bible for a few hours. Then she gave a sermon, more prayers. She announced that if anyone didn’t want to pray and do Sunday school stuff we could go out in the hall, put our hands over our faces and stand in a corner, all day long. I came to hate “Christians”. Still do today.
Where did you go to school?
Public schools in Wadesboro, NC.
Thank you for your response. I went to school in Roslyn, New York and we were largely a Jewish community (I used to be Catholic until I could no longer bear the hypocrisy) and we were so universally accepting and I still revel in that.
What you describe in your school would have never been tolerated in my school and I'm proud to say that. I also proudly say that I was Cantor Belink's Left Hand Boy, and I can still sing Bloch's Sacred Service without a score, and have gone to more Bar Mitzvah's, Bat/Bas Mitzvah's, Seders and have sat Shiva more than any Jewish person you ever met, yet I'm still a Christian. The Jewish people made me what I am---------- well, maybe they facilitated in me becoming who I am------- and I will be forever grateful to the opportunities I was given. If you want an idea of what Roslyn Schools were like, here is a synopsis of a movie they made about us called "Bad Education"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Education_(2019_film)
I grew up in Great Neck, not far from Roslyn and went to several restaurants there. We had to say the Pledge of Allegiance every morning and I refused to say it because it wasn't true! I also refused to hide under my desk when we had air raid drills saying it wasn't going to help me! Always a rebel and I still am!
I know Great Neck very, very well. Spinny Hill and all. Did you go to Great Neck North or Great Neck South. I know I don't have to tell you about the difference between the two of them. Ah, but North had all the great restaurants and shopping on Northern Blvd. I'll bet you ate at Patricia Murphy's and had their famous popovers. I never had that opportunity.
Did you know that Lucian lived on Long Island, farther east, but still on the North Shore.
I attended Great Neck South and yes, I remember the popovers at Patricia Murphy’s! Yum! We lived in Thomaston, a few blocks up from the LIRR!
I do remember Lucian lived further out on L.I.
I so enjoy reading his newsletters! I now live in Manhattan, NYC in the West Village!
Fetzer, I grew up in Lenoir, NC and our junior high made bible study part of the curriculum. My parents, both Holocaust victims, opted out for that for both my sister and me. Thank goodness! We had a Baptist church on every corner!
🤯😤😠
WOW!
What a colossal waste of time for you and your fellow students. I'm so sorry to hear that you had to suffer through that. Having heard your story I consider myself very fortunate to have gone through public schools in Pensacola, Florida in the 50's & 60's without that kind of religious indoctrination. Of course, by now, it's entirely possible things have changed for kids in Pensacola by now, but I hope not.
Military community...
The Navy is where I first learned anything. It was a great education. I learned Arabic and became fluent, a whole lot of history of the Middle East and North Africa. I also learned Spanish and became fluent in German. I got to know people from all over the world. After I did my four years I went to college on the G.I. Bill. I get my healthcare from the Department of Veterans Affairs. I think enlisting or getting commissioned are some of the best things young people can do for themselves and their country.
Thou shalt not require classrooms to display the Ten Commandments when you don’t pay attention to any of them anyway…
If only they had been displayed in the classroom of P01135890.
Would not have done any good.
😂😂😂😂😂
and let's add, Thou shalt instead display The Beattitudes; a text you'd expect CHRISTIAN Nationalists to follow!
It has been a very hard week for most people..floods, fires, tropical depressions, heat domes over New England, and other worldly phenomena that can be ascribed to man made climate change.
Then there was the 'drop a dime in the room and you can't hear a whisper' that 2 senior judges from the same judicial district as Aileen Cannon urged her to reconsider taking Trump's case-just because they felt it might be onerous for the very green judge to take on. She refused.
Then the Supreme Court is still dilly-dallying away on the issue of Trump's immunity, driving everyone on both sides absolutely insane, "Will they or won't they" and nobody knows why this has been so delayed, but right now the 10 Commandments being placed on class room walls for the state of Louisiana is just another drop in the already over-flowing bucket of ordure we've been smelling for the last 6 months.
So the pastor got a pass from his church on his sin. This is why people stop going to church-the sheer absolute utter hubris these people have in saying, "I repented my sins, I'm clean" is just so mind-boggling that it defies rationalization.
Just like the Catholic church used to do-sell those penances and have your sin wiped out with one hell of a donation to the parish..sickening.
I do know that if the girl had gotten pregnant, though, he would have paid for an abortion because that would be a real problem-fruits of the forbidden tree would be evidence in a rape trial. But hey, it's forgiven! God says so! So what if it's in Texas? He's a preacher-and they're special...
Yeah, religion is wonderful because it hides so many crimes that you'd never run out of stories.
But I'm really tired tonight after hearing all these news stories, and surviving a heat dome for 3 solid days that one of my favorite actors, Donald Sutherland, died today after a long illness at the age of 88.
Damn. No relief for the honest and upright people. We're getting slammed every which way but loose, and the real sinners are running the country.
I concur with your every word in every paragraph, Mary. And the loss of the great Donald Sutherland just added to all the miserable news.
It’s truly disgusting that this sexual predator masquerading as a pastor calls molesting a CHILD a “data point.” Is that what that church calls “repenting?!” There should be no statue of limitations on such a horrific crime. Sexual predators never abuse children in only one instance. Sadly, it’s almost certain she wasn’t his only victim.
It's just such a cliche by now, the pastor of a huge mega-church molesting children, it would actually be news to me to hear an example of one of these churches where molestation or financial fraud has yet to occur.
What I found the MOST disgusting is referring to a 12 year old GIRL, as a young woman! That man needs his head examined, not being "pardoned" or whatever his church has done. She will spend the rest of her life with what was done to her, and he just walks off into the sunset.
There are equivalents to the commandments in just about every worldwide religion. There are websites giving them. So sure, I’m good with posting them. All of them, side by side, so students can see how people of other cultures and faiths share these rules for decent societal behavior. They might even start to look at other cultures and traditions as similar, not inferior or “other.” My, my, wouldn’t that upset the apple cart.
I love it! So much more productive than yet another law suit! Instead of less speech, more speech. And dare I suggest it, more recognition of the hypocrisy of church "leaders"? Maybe? One can dream.
These are the same people who hold liberals in contempt for believing in the rule of law, caring for those less fortunate and supporting the right for women to choose, people to love and marry whom they choose, protect their children from bump stocks and assault weapons and a man with deep moral values to lead our Country.
Just the icing on the cake that this pig Morris referred to a 12-year-old girl as a "young lady". Damn shame he can't be prosecuted.
Or executed. Yes, I said that and I know Lucian isn’t a fan of anyone recommending anything like this but damnit to hell! When does this shit against girls and women stop??
That the church forgave him doesn’t necessarily mean that the law will. This is still sexual abuse of a minor child. And there’s a recording. I hope he goes to jail, and finds out what other prisoners think of pedophiles.
Unfortunately there appears to be a problem with the statute of limitations, and it may not be possible to prosecute. However, I hope the victim and her family will consider a whopping civil suit.
That’ll do. I hope so.
Perhaps we could simply send them a copy of the Constitution, which, in their defense, they've obviously not seen. Yeah, it would have to be in large print and heavily notated, but it would be a start...
They know it's unconstitutional, but they consider their religion a higher law than the Constitution.
I hate like Hell to tell them this (I don't actually) but their premise is seriously in error.
Can’t argue with that
The governor of Louisiana should be made to pay the court fees associated with the lawsuits when he loses.
Yes! Will the citizens of LA even care or be told that they're gonna pay the costs of these coming lawsuits? Bet not!
They should post another tablet; this one listing the commandments Felonious Trump has broken (although the list of the unbroken one is shorter).
The murder he committed was the covid response.
which one hasn't he broken? Asking for a friend.
😂😂😂
Tell your friend I said Hi.
hypocrisy, much? It seems to be what the 'religious' right lives and breathes. The selfishness of the 'leaders' and self-preservation of their golden goose is all that matters. How do they dare call themselves Christians, men of god when they have no concern for the victim of the abuse? The hubris is breath taking. This and millions of other actions like it are what caused me to walk away from organized religion decades ago. Ghandi said it best: “I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.”
I am outraged by our corrupt SCROTUS.Our recourse is of course at the ballot box.I am also so fearful that the results of this election be they a Biden landslide will be challenged by Trump and will be put into the putrid hands of this disgusting corrupt Court.
I'm a theist and I claim to be a Christian of some kind or another (NOT the obsequious boot licking trump sort) That said, I strenuously support the simple concept of Separation of Church and State. Haven't these hypocrites ever read The Establishment Clause?
They don't care about it.
Is that smell sulfur or hypocrisy?
The latter.
Soooo good!
They should be required to post the T.C. in the original Aramaic.