As I slogged my way through the turgid prose of Bret Stephens’ New York Times column entitled “20 Years On, I Don’t Regret Supporting the Iraq War,” I waited for the mention of just one death caused by our invasion of Iraq.
Thanks for writing this. My son was in the 101st Airborne and it was a source of pride for him. Sadly, his experience in Iraq messed him up to where he was aimless in life and homeless at times. He was my pride and joy. He died on November 26, 2017. Multiple substance toxicity or as I prefer to call it, a long slow suicide. He’s entombed in Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery in Elburn, Illinois. Fuck Bret Stephens.
Oh Michael.... I am so so sorry...I ache for you and feel more tears burn down my cheeks. how does it ever get better... surely it doesn't. I will keep you in my heart.
Michael, my heart breaks for you. My firstborn served two deployments to Iraq before he turned 23, and came back an emotional mess. He’s in good shape now, but I pray that there’s no bit of fuse left. 💔🙏💔
Oh, I am so sorry for your loss, Michael. I screamed at my TV, "There are NO weapons of mass destruction there!" I cannot imagine your pain. Fuck Bret Stephens.
My best friend won a medal in Vietnam. The next day he was killed. I wasn’t there because nobody wanted a guy wearing a hearing aid. My best friend’s personal effects came home separately from his sealed coffin. His broken glasses had his blood on them. His mother lost it, crying and wailing every time she saw me since I was like a second son and especially since I had spent every spare moment with him during his one-month furlough just before deployment. His last letter to me said, “Our Colonel is a crazy bastard and is going to get all our shit blown away.” Which he did.
The Old Lie is: “Dolce et decorum est pro patria mori.” Another Old Lie is that our “National Honor demands it.”
I have a 50-year blood feud with any S.O.B. who starts a war.
Thanks, Lucian. I too can not, and will not accept that the invasion of Iraq was anything but an illegal war and, quite frankly, a total illegitimate and unConstitutional abuse of power by the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice gang of Neocons cheered on by a media that were all too willing to promote the administration’s lies and flimsy justifications. Twenty years on and many of these same soul-dead S.O.B.s are still unmoved by the reality of that devastating conflict. So stupid. So much waste. So needless. They are the kind of people who should be forced to read the definitive tome on the real tragedy of war by highly decorated, Marine Corps General, Smedley D. Butler: “War is a Racket” (1935). It is the kind of book that should be available in school libraries all over the country. But, now of course, that won’t happen, because a lot of students would undoubtedly not feel very good about all those ‘heroic’ American military exploits in places all over the world that don’t stand up very well to scrutiny. Better to ban them and go on living in Ignorant bliss.
AUMF is not same-same as Congressional Declaration of War no matter how many times Bush-Cheney-Rummie-Powell and conservative media tried to make it seem so.
And the term "muscular Foreign Policy" is not a strategy, it's yet another R/con Zombie 3word chant.
"Muscular" in this sense reminds me of the "muscular Christianity" that came into vogue during the second half of the 19th century. The gist was that Christianity was becoming too feminized (never mind that women couldn't be ordained in any of the major denominations) and that manly men needed to reassert themselves. Teddy Roosevelt was a major exponent of this in the U.S. IOW, "muscular" tends to suggest an emphasis on force and forcefulness over diplomacy and "soft power."
100% to each and every word and their underlying thoughts and points.
For good measure the tip of the spear" was wed to "Muscular FP.
A wise man once quoted an equally wise man's First You Feed Them (FYFT). Was cleverly included in Lucian's latest as a reminder the actual measure of wisdom is found its transferability over both time and circumstances.
JFK-Shriver's Peace Corps was all about the right tools and right attitudes leading FP. Then, as now, food and water insecurity aka empty bellies and parched throats are what lead to unrest and instability.
If and when US or western troops are needed due to unrest and instability, they need to be led by a small contingent of security personnel (never SEALs) and a large contingent of CoE/Seabees, Mil MDs, RNs, and DDSs. And the security personnel can't present as if they came from outer space, 80# kits and armored up. The vast majority of personnel must be non-white.
The first and universal tongue is not language, it is sight. Language barriers can be mostly overcome including in humorous ways. Laughter is a universal tongue. Sights not so easily.
So, muscular FP is as foolhardy as winning hearts and minds via the spear, sword and cash because it lacks thought and soundness resulting in the exact opposite effect as history recorded.
Amen to all that -- and your advice applies pretty damn well to domestic "unrest and instability." When law enforcement "presents as if they came from outer space" (excellent image), things usually don't end well.
And yes, most definitely applies here and anywhere law enforcement prefers breaking heads and with it breaking the social contract of serving and protecting.
Don't know how, when or where the word force came to replace persuade. Does anyone?
Thank you for the book recommendation. I doubt I have the stomach to read it. But I will try to obtain a copy so I can wave it in the face of anyone I meet who tries to assert war is heroic or glorious. I do remain puzzled about one thing, though. How do we deal with brutal, authoritarian, war-making psychopaths—like Hitler, whom the Allies vanquished at an epic cost, Pol Pot, who was allowed years of brutally running amok because he stayed in Cambodia, Hafez Assad, who has obliterated his own country and people because we set a “red line” at use of chemical weopons then did nothing when he crossed it, and of course Vladimir “the Butcher” Putin, who is currently doing his bloody damndest to obliterate Ukraine—if we do not wage war to stop them?
Excellent. I hope fate has been kind to that man and his family.
I don't think that most decision-makers in the Bush II administration sincerely believed anything about the lies they told and continue to tell about Iraq. If they do, it's only in the self-deluded, wishful projection mode that Drumpf lives in. They had been looking for an excuse to go after Iraq from the time Dubya got appointed president and they seized the first best opportunity that came their way. It's been reported how determined those "Vulcans" (as some were dubbed) were to punish Saddam and install a compliant puppet government in Baghdad and dominate the Near East from there. Even Dubya said how he wanted to get Saddam for "trying to kill my daddy" (along with his other undeclared daddy issues). They cherry-picked intelligence to fit the picture they wanted to paint and show to the American public. (Much of the rest of the world didn't buy it then and even loyal Britain is embarrassed and angry in hindsight at being dragged into those wars by "Poodle" Blair.)
Embarrassed and angry in hindsight? My husband was one of the estimated one million demonstrators in London against the invasion of Iraq--the largest political demonstration in the city's history. A significant number of people in the UK today are vocal in their belief that Tony Blair is a war criminal (together, of course, with Bush and his whole arrogant crew).
Indeed. Many, many of us protested in 2002-03, in vain, and I felt especially bad for people in Britain, Canada, Australia, and the rest whose leaders sent troops into battle to further Uncle Sam's lies. Seems I recall only France among major allies stood apart from this "coalition" (and received a ton of tantrums from US commentators), the other leaders were too afraid to say No to Bush II. They mostly went against the wishes of their own citizens. Shame on them.
The arrogance and impunity with which Bush instigated and entered this insane venture...how he has gotten away with it!? How?
Not even an apology; because that would be admitting he LIED to us( and maybe even to himself). Too bad he gave up the alcohol; at least then the only victims would have been him and his family.
I'm another one who initially believed the lies and supported the war. Now I go back and forth on whether the ones who led us into it are war criminals.
Although I vehemently support Ukraine and want its lands returned and the invaders punished, I'm married to a Russian who believes the West forced Russia's hand in Ukraine and supports her country's goals, if not all its actions. I wonder whether if she and I are still alive in 20 years, she will feel about the invasion as I do about our invasion of Iraq....
It is columns like this that remind me why I signed up for your letter. The sensitivity, the understanding of the large chaos of war, yet the understanding of one poor war dog, trying to find his way.
I also read his column and was taken back by his refusal in light of what we know to continue to double down. His arguments are beyond weak, and you are correct the cost in human lives is and continues to be enormous. And for what? We broke a country, both directly and indirectly caused massive suffering for a lie.
We also lost credibility, ended up creating ISIS through our post invasion incompetence then built them into a 10ft threat which we promptly threw more billions to a unaccountable Pentagon.
It should be some kind of virtue to reasses ones beliefs in the face of reality.
But the folks who are all about reckless ill thought wars do not consider the 1st, 2nd and 3rd order effects never are wrong because they never go. Just ask John Bolton, there's not a country he wouldn't bomb. And until we as Americans start to question our Gung ho politicians in the endless fear and giving money to the Pentagon it will never stop. It doesn't help when only %1 of Americans participate in you know the wars. Sorry about the rant but his article was a disgrace.
Thanks you Lucian: One: for the column and its truths; Two for saving a life injured in Iraq. I have two friends suffering from Vietnam PTSD (one went back so his brothers would not have to go....). It is vicious and consumes lives. Bush and the whole cabal lied to the USA and the World. I still wonder how Bush et al sleep at night. But if you have no morals, then perhaps you don't worry. Thank you again for your "yarn" about the Iraq Vet----your "yarns" rivet and tell truth.
Very powerful piece, Lucian . I despise Stephen’s and think less of the Times Editorial Board for allowing the shallow ideological columns to run unchallenged.
It is part of the NYT's publicized effort to be more "mainstream" and centrist, to allegedly increase their readership. In other words, giving op-ed space to clowns like Stephens and Douthat to generate more cash. Wake up, NYT....the right hates you and won't jump on board to buy subscriptions; they can get all they want from the New York Post, Washington Examiner, Tribune Content Network and other bottom feeders without being troubled by possible exposure to some other, "woke", reporting or editorials. Bye, NYT, I gave up my subscription months ago.
I had no idea that Stephens was an unrepentant Iraq War supporter, but I'm not surprised.
The last time I saw him was on Real Time with fellow knucklehead Bill Maher. The 2 of them were congratulating each other on solving the COVID crisis with their individual good brains. Apparently the answer was herd immunity: let everybody get out there and infect each other and somewhere down the line we, whoever is left alive, will be immune. It works with peanut allergies too!
I felt ill. I couldn't bring myself to watch Maher again and I lost whatever minor respect I had for Stephens.
Perhaps Bret Stephens is allergic to anecdotes. I am reminded of the R congressman recently arguing with Jon Stewart, “But that’s an anecdote!” To him the word meant a fiction, fake news.
Behind every statistic there are many, many anecdotes, as truthful and significant as the one you told here about a young soldier’s reason for nightmares. Seeing my cousin’s husband buried at Arlington Cemetery in 1966, I thought then that having to witness all the funerals would put a damper on the enthusiasm for war.
Thanks for writing this. My son was in the 101st Airborne and it was a source of pride for him. Sadly, his experience in Iraq messed him up to where he was aimless in life and homeless at times. He was my pride and joy. He died on November 26, 2017. Multiple substance toxicity or as I prefer to call it, a long slow suicide. He’s entombed in Abraham Lincoln National Cemetery in Elburn, Illinois. Fuck Bret Stephens.
I'm very sad for you.
I am so sorry for your loss. My heart to yours Michael.
I too, send you my condolences. War is hell.
How heartbreaking. Michael, I am so sorry for your loss.
Oh Michael.... I am so so sorry...I ache for you and feel more tears burn down my cheeks. how does it ever get better... surely it doesn't. I will keep you in my heart.
My sympathies Michael.
Michael, my heart breaks for you. My firstborn served two deployments to Iraq before he turned 23, and came back an emotional mess. He’s in good shape now, but I pray that there’s no bit of fuse left. 💔🙏💔
I hope he stays that way. In my son’s case, the VA helped a lot but they’re overwhelmed and it’s easy to fall through the cracks.
Michael, I’m sorry for the loss of your son. There are no words to say that can mean anything. Fuck Brent Stephens in spades.
So very sad.
Oh, I am so sorry for your loss, Michael. I screamed at my TV, "There are NO weapons of mass destruction there!" I cannot imagine your pain. Fuck Bret Stephens.
My best friend won a medal in Vietnam. The next day he was killed. I wasn’t there because nobody wanted a guy wearing a hearing aid. My best friend’s personal effects came home separately from his sealed coffin. His broken glasses had his blood on them. His mother lost it, crying and wailing every time she saw me since I was like a second son and especially since I had spent every spare moment with him during his one-month furlough just before deployment. His last letter to me said, “Our Colonel is a crazy bastard and is going to get all our shit blown away.” Which he did.
The Old Lie is: “Dolce et decorum est pro patria mori.” Another Old Lie is that our “National Honor demands it.”
I have a 50-year blood feud with any S.O.B. who starts a war.
thank you. and that wasn't the usual "thank you for your service," but more a "thank you for sharing."
Heartbreaking and poignant. Thank you for sharing another glimpse into your extraordinary life.
Vietnam: domino theory (whatever that means)
Iraq: we will be greeted as liberators
Afghanistan: fight them there so we don't have to fight them here
We just make shit up when we want a war.
You're a good man, Lucian. And this is a wonderful column.
Thanks, Lucian. I too can not, and will not accept that the invasion of Iraq was anything but an illegal war and, quite frankly, a total illegitimate and unConstitutional abuse of power by the Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Rice gang of Neocons cheered on by a media that were all too willing to promote the administration’s lies and flimsy justifications. Twenty years on and many of these same soul-dead S.O.B.s are still unmoved by the reality of that devastating conflict. So stupid. So much waste. So needless. They are the kind of people who should be forced to read the definitive tome on the real tragedy of war by highly decorated, Marine Corps General, Smedley D. Butler: “War is a Racket” (1935). It is the kind of book that should be available in school libraries all over the country. But, now of course, that won’t happen, because a lot of students would undoubtedly not feel very good about all those ‘heroic’ American military exploits in places all over the world that don’t stand up very well to scrutiny. Better to ban them and go on living in Ignorant bliss.
AUMF is not same-same as Congressional Declaration of War no matter how many times Bush-Cheney-Rummie-Powell and conservative media tried to make it seem so.
And the term "muscular Foreign Policy" is not a strategy, it's yet another R/con Zombie 3word chant.
"Muscular" in this sense reminds me of the "muscular Christianity" that came into vogue during the second half of the 19th century. The gist was that Christianity was becoming too feminized (never mind that women couldn't be ordained in any of the major denominations) and that manly men needed to reassert themselves. Teddy Roosevelt was a major exponent of this in the U.S. IOW, "muscular" tends to suggest an emphasis on force and forcefulness over diplomacy and "soft power."
100% to each and every word and their underlying thoughts and points.
For good measure the tip of the spear" was wed to "Muscular FP.
A wise man once quoted an equally wise man's First You Feed Them (FYFT). Was cleverly included in Lucian's latest as a reminder the actual measure of wisdom is found its transferability over both time and circumstances.
JFK-Shriver's Peace Corps was all about the right tools and right attitudes leading FP. Then, as now, food and water insecurity aka empty bellies and parched throats are what lead to unrest and instability.
If and when US or western troops are needed due to unrest and instability, they need to be led by a small contingent of security personnel (never SEALs) and a large contingent of CoE/Seabees, Mil MDs, RNs, and DDSs. And the security personnel can't present as if they came from outer space, 80# kits and armored up. The vast majority of personnel must be non-white.
The first and universal tongue is not language, it is sight. Language barriers can be mostly overcome including in humorous ways. Laughter is a universal tongue. Sights not so easily.
So, muscular FP is as foolhardy as winning hearts and minds via the spear, sword and cash because it lacks thought and soundness resulting in the exact opposite effect as history recorded.
Amen to all that -- and your advice applies pretty damn well to domestic "unrest and instability." When law enforcement "presents as if they came from outer space" (excellent image), things usually don't end well.
Respect.
And yes, most definitely applies here and anywhere law enforcement prefers breaking heads and with it breaking the social contract of serving and protecting.
Don't know how, when or where the word force came to replace persuade. Does anyone?
Thank you for the book recommendation. I doubt I have the stomach to read it. But I will try to obtain a copy so I can wave it in the face of anyone I meet who tries to assert war is heroic or glorious. I do remain puzzled about one thing, though. How do we deal with brutal, authoritarian, war-making psychopaths—like Hitler, whom the Allies vanquished at an epic cost, Pol Pot, who was allowed years of brutally running amok because he stayed in Cambodia, Hafez Assad, who has obliterated his own country and people because we set a “red line” at use of chemical weopons then did nothing when he crossed it, and of course Vladimir “the Butcher” Putin, who is currently doing his bloody damndest to obliterate Ukraine—if we do not wage war to stop them?
Excellent. I hope fate has been kind to that man and his family.
I don't think that most decision-makers in the Bush II administration sincerely believed anything about the lies they told and continue to tell about Iraq. If they do, it's only in the self-deluded, wishful projection mode that Drumpf lives in. They had been looking for an excuse to go after Iraq from the time Dubya got appointed president and they seized the first best opportunity that came their way. It's been reported how determined those "Vulcans" (as some were dubbed) were to punish Saddam and install a compliant puppet government in Baghdad and dominate the Near East from there. Even Dubya said how he wanted to get Saddam for "trying to kill my daddy" (along with his other undeclared daddy issues). They cherry-picked intelligence to fit the picture they wanted to paint and show to the American public. (Much of the rest of the world didn't buy it then and even loyal Britain is embarrassed and angry in hindsight at being dragged into those wars by "Poodle" Blair.)
Embarrassed and angry in hindsight? My husband was one of the estimated one million demonstrators in London against the invasion of Iraq--the largest political demonstration in the city's history. A significant number of people in the UK today are vocal in their belief that Tony Blair is a war criminal (together, of course, with Bush and his whole arrogant crew).
Indeed. Many, many of us protested in 2002-03, in vain, and I felt especially bad for people in Britain, Canada, Australia, and the rest whose leaders sent troops into battle to further Uncle Sam's lies. Seems I recall only France among major allies stood apart from this "coalition" (and received a ton of tantrums from US commentators), the other leaders were too afraid to say No to Bush II. They mostly went against the wishes of their own citizens. Shame on them.
Thanks for the column
The arrogance and impunity with which Bush instigated and entered this insane venture...how he has gotten away with it!? How?
Not even an apology; because that would be admitting he LIED to us( and maybe even to himself). Too bad he gave up the alcohol; at least then the only victims would have been him and his family.
great column
I'm another one who initially believed the lies and supported the war. Now I go back and forth on whether the ones who led us into it are war criminals.
Although I vehemently support Ukraine and want its lands returned and the invaders punished, I'm married to a Russian who believes the West forced Russia's hand in Ukraine and supports her country's goals, if not all its actions. I wonder whether if she and I are still alive in 20 years, she will feel about the invasion as I do about our invasion of Iraq....
It is columns like this that remind me why I signed up for your letter. The sensitivity, the understanding of the large chaos of war, yet the understanding of one poor war dog, trying to find his way.
Don't stop. I need your humanity.
I also read his column and was taken back by his refusal in light of what we know to continue to double down. His arguments are beyond weak, and you are correct the cost in human lives is and continues to be enormous. And for what? We broke a country, both directly and indirectly caused massive suffering for a lie.
We also lost credibility, ended up creating ISIS through our post invasion incompetence then built them into a 10ft threat which we promptly threw more billions to a unaccountable Pentagon.
It should be some kind of virtue to reasses ones beliefs in the face of reality.
But the folks who are all about reckless ill thought wars do not consider the 1st, 2nd and 3rd order effects never are wrong because they never go. Just ask John Bolton, there's not a country he wouldn't bomb. And until we as Americans start to question our Gung ho politicians in the endless fear and giving money to the Pentagon it will never stop. It doesn't help when only %1 of Americans participate in you know the wars. Sorry about the rant but his article was a disgrace.
Follow the oil money.
Thanks you Lucian: One: for the column and its truths; Two for saving a life injured in Iraq. I have two friends suffering from Vietnam PTSD (one went back so his brothers would not have to go....). It is vicious and consumes lives. Bush and the whole cabal lied to the USA and the World. I still wonder how Bush et al sleep at night. But if you have no morals, then perhaps you don't worry. Thank you again for your "yarn" about the Iraq Vet----your "yarns" rivet and tell truth.
Very powerful piece, Lucian . I despise Stephen’s and think less of the Times Editorial Board for allowing the shallow ideological columns to run unchallenged.
It is part of the NYT's publicized effort to be more "mainstream" and centrist, to allegedly increase their readership. In other words, giving op-ed space to clowns like Stephens and Douthat to generate more cash. Wake up, NYT....the right hates you and won't jump on board to buy subscriptions; they can get all they want from the New York Post, Washington Examiner, Tribune Content Network and other bottom feeders without being troubled by possible exposure to some other, "woke", reporting or editorials. Bye, NYT, I gave up my subscription months ago.
Gave up my NYT subscription a year or 2 ago. Prefer The Atlantic and Lucian Truscott.
I had no idea that Stephens was an unrepentant Iraq War supporter, but I'm not surprised.
The last time I saw him was on Real Time with fellow knucklehead Bill Maher. The 2 of them were congratulating each other on solving the COVID crisis with their individual good brains. Apparently the answer was herd immunity: let everybody get out there and infect each other and somewhere down the line we, whoever is left alive, will be immune. It works with peanut allergies too!
I felt ill. I couldn't bring myself to watch Maher again and I lost whatever minor respect I had for Stephens.
I could not agree more with your assessment of these two self-congratulatory asses.
Perhaps Bret Stephens is allergic to anecdotes. I am reminded of the R congressman recently arguing with Jon Stewart, “But that’s an anecdote!” To him the word meant a fiction, fake news.
Behind every statistic there are many, many anecdotes, as truthful and significant as the one you told here about a young soldier’s reason for nightmares. Seeing my cousin’s husband buried at Arlington Cemetery in 1966, I thought then that having to witness all the funerals would put a damper on the enthusiasm for war.
Yes.
So powerful, Lucian.