The Russian army pulled out of the region around the city of Kherson overnight, leaving behind army uniforms, stockpiles of ammunition, and a local populace cheering the arrival of Ukrainian forces in the street.
And this is what the end of the line looks like when disinformation and misinformation entirely take over the public sphere through the mouth of the government/"official media". We call it propoganda (it is!) but seems to me it's more usefully understood right now as being at one end of a continuum along which "public information" in the US is currently traveling - in the wrong direction.
Whether it's far-right, fascist-/autocratic-leaning politicians, or clamoring trolls on social media and right-wing talk shows, or "mainstream media" pushing false narratives and half-truths down the throats of citizens who still believe they can rely, as in decades past, on what their tv or radio shows report...our society is already sliding toward what we correctly assess to be the tragedy of the Russian population's vulnerability to believing whatever their Dear Leader wants them to.
I have been thinking "How tragic for them! How insidious to control a population by denying them access to facts and verifiable truths!" And today this post came along and the parallels clicked into place. "Oh."
I was with you all the way through your denunciation of propaganda until I hit your last graf and the sentence, "And today this post came along and the parallels clicked into place." I'm not sure I understand what that means. The parallels between the Russian statements about Kherson out of Moscow and what I wrote in my post? The report I filed this morning, the "this post" you refer to, is what, exactly? Part of the mainstream media's "false narratives and half truths," or what?
Oh Lucian, Debbora seems to be reading your post and drawing a parallel between the Soviet misinformation and the once again recognition of the damage misinformation has, and is, doing in our own country. In the midst of feeling sorrow for Russians, she’s reminded to feel sorrow for Americans at the hands of Trump, Alex Jones,...a lot of our media. [And it’s Veteran’s Day...which is a reminder of how my Dad, 18 years-old, went off to Egypt in an Army Air Force uniform. Never imagining that one day America would be running on propaganda.]
My father was in the AAF too: North Africa then Italy. Being color-blind, he couldn't fly a plane, but he managed to muster out as a master sergeant. He said several times that Joseph Heller's _Catch-22_ did a better job of capturing what the war was like than anything else he'd read. We read it at the same time in the late '60s, when I was about 17 and he was about 46.
The brilliance of the American system has long been that we deny *ourselves* access to "facts," which is to say any information that makes us uncomfortable and/or differs from what those around us believe. No evil dictator is necessary. And of course our economic system makes this easy: wealth can buy access to all sorts of media, not to mention elective office. This is the one source of power that the founders provided no checks and balances for. Small wonder the rich and mega-rich call any and all efforts to check their economic "socialist," "communist," "un-American."
What's going on now in GOP-led states to suppress the teaching of fact-based U.S. history might be more instructive than what's going on with the media. Public schools are mostly funded through governments, local, state, and federal. Theoretically at least "we the people" have some influence there, at least more than we have with, say, Peter Thiel or the Mercers or the surviving Koch brother. And in some places "we the people" are absolutely OK with "false narratives and half-truths."
No, Lucian, I meant that your post about Russian propaganda allowed me to suddenly see that that is where we are headed! Your posts are never part of disinformation - I rely on you for facts and verifiable truths...and marvelous writing, as I recently wrote.
Please tell me if you think I should clarify my post!!! I don''t want any confusion about where I stand - or about where I stand vis a vis your columns.
I always wanted to live in my own alternative reality universe. It seems the Russians have discovered it before me.
Wonder how long those Russian soldiers "in civilian clothes who were, obviously , left behind to cause mischief will hang around when the locals start pointing fingers at them?
Crossing the Dnipro will be a major undertaking. Maybe best left until the spring thaw? Until then, just shell the crap out of the new bunkers and storehouses. Why risk losing your best battlefield troops when you can put the new Russian conscripts through a new version of Hell for several months. Before that is over the second level of the Russian Army will have a field day.
This: "Meanwhile, in Moscow, Putin’s government appeared to still be laying claim to Kherson. “Kherson region is a subject of the Russian Federation. This status is fixed,” Dmitri S. Peskov, the Kremlin’s spokesman, announced today. “There can be no changes here.”
Dear Lucian - The last word that would come to my mind about your excellent reporting is propaganda. You obviously go through great pains to practice journalism in the best sense of that profession. Having been in it long ago, and having had several friends in it, 50-years ago, I think I’m still able to spot propaganda pretty easily. It was around then too. Please, please keep reporting as you do. I look forward to reading your view of everything you cover.
As for the Russian withdrawal across the river from Kherson, it’s obviously a strategic move meant to give themselves more protection, and effectively a ‘dare’ to the Ukrainians to try and attack them in their new defensive positions by crossing the river, now bridgeless. It would be suicidal, and the Ukrainians must know that. I am no armchair general, and claim no military skills or experience, but it seems to me the Ukrainians are at a disadvantage in the current arrangements in their efforts to push the Russians back further. I’ll resist the temptation to suggest what the Ukrainians should do, but they are obviously quite capable and will figure it out. Just as long as we keep supporting them, and give them essentially everything they want, this horror show might be over, one way or another, by next spring. I hope I’m not being delusional.
I always look to your columns to explain military matters between Ukraine and Russia. Keep up the good reporting, especially at a time when we are more focused on the elections rather than this terrible, needless war.
While Dmitri Peskov may fall short of Baghdad Bob in the truth cut from whole cloth department, telling the Big Lie is a popular model used by others but for the same purpose.
Russia is losing thee war. This is a fact. Russia has yet to acknowledged that fact. Eventually they will because their audience will have vanished and they will be talking to themselves.
Apparently there have been a very high number of obvious atrocities. IMO, the Russians from top to bottom need to have serious consequences for these actions. It isn’t just Putler. The average Russian soldier is as culpable as Putler 😡‼️
Too bad there isn't a process to turn gaslight into a clean energy source - the Russian mouthpieces could power the whole planet.....
Bravo Ukraine 👏
And this is what the end of the line looks like when disinformation and misinformation entirely take over the public sphere through the mouth of the government/"official media". We call it propoganda (it is!) but seems to me it's more usefully understood right now as being at one end of a continuum along which "public information" in the US is currently traveling - in the wrong direction.
Whether it's far-right, fascist-/autocratic-leaning politicians, or clamoring trolls on social media and right-wing talk shows, or "mainstream media" pushing false narratives and half-truths down the throats of citizens who still believe they can rely, as in decades past, on what their tv or radio shows report...our society is already sliding toward what we correctly assess to be the tragedy of the Russian population's vulnerability to believing whatever their Dear Leader wants them to.
I have been thinking "How tragic for them! How insidious to control a population by denying them access to facts and verifiable truths!" And today this post came along and the parallels clicked into place. "Oh."
I was with you all the way through your denunciation of propaganda until I hit your last graf and the sentence, "And today this post came along and the parallels clicked into place." I'm not sure I understand what that means. The parallels between the Russian statements about Kherson out of Moscow and what I wrote in my post? The report I filed this morning, the "this post" you refer to, is what, exactly? Part of the mainstream media's "false narratives and half truths," or what?
Oh Lucian, Debbora seems to be reading your post and drawing a parallel between the Soviet misinformation and the once again recognition of the damage misinformation has, and is, doing in our own country. In the midst of feeling sorrow for Russians, she’s reminded to feel sorrow for Americans at the hands of Trump, Alex Jones,...a lot of our media. [And it’s Veteran’s Day...which is a reminder of how my Dad, 18 years-old, went off to Egypt in an Army Air Force uniform. Never imagining that one day America would be running on propaganda.]
My father was in the AAF too: North Africa then Italy. Being color-blind, he couldn't fly a plane, but he managed to muster out as a master sergeant. He said several times that Joseph Heller's _Catch-22_ did a better job of capturing what the war was like than anything else he'd read. We read it at the same time in the late '60s, when I was about 17 and he was about 46.
The brilliance of the American system has long been that we deny *ourselves* access to "facts," which is to say any information that makes us uncomfortable and/or differs from what those around us believe. No evil dictator is necessary. And of course our economic system makes this easy: wealth can buy access to all sorts of media, not to mention elective office. This is the one source of power that the founders provided no checks and balances for. Small wonder the rich and mega-rich call any and all efforts to check their economic "socialist," "communist," "un-American."
What's going on now in GOP-led states to suppress the teaching of fact-based U.S. history might be more instructive than what's going on with the media. Public schools are mostly funded through governments, local, state, and federal. Theoretically at least "we the people" have some influence there, at least more than we have with, say, Peter Thiel or the Mercers or the surviving Koch brother. And in some places "we the people" are absolutely OK with "false narratives and half-truths."
Oh dear.
No, Lucian, I meant that your post about Russian propaganda allowed me to suddenly see that that is where we are headed! Your posts are never part of disinformation - I rely on you for facts and verifiable truths...and marvelous writing, as I recently wrote.
Please tell me if you think I should clarify my post!!! I don''t want any confusion about where I stand - or about where I stand vis a vis your columns.
No problem. I just read it wrong. My error in reading has been pointed out to me by other readers and you, so sorry.
I always wanted to live in my own alternative reality universe. It seems the Russians have discovered it before me.
Wonder how long those Russian soldiers "in civilian clothes who were, obviously , left behind to cause mischief will hang around when the locals start pointing fingers at them?
Crossing the Dnipro will be a major undertaking. Maybe best left until the spring thaw? Until then, just shell the crap out of the new bunkers and storehouses. Why risk losing your best battlefield troops when you can put the new Russian conscripts through a new version of Hell for several months. Before that is over the second level of the Russian Army will have a field day.
This: "Meanwhile, in Moscow, Putin’s government appeared to still be laying claim to Kherson. “Kherson region is a subject of the Russian Federation. This status is fixed,” Dmitri S. Peskov, the Kremlin’s spokesman, announced today. “There can be no changes here.”
Reminds me of "I say it's so, so it's so."
Meanwhile, control of one of our two houses of Congress hangs in the balance, with the pro-Putin party having the better odds.
There must be some feverish machinations going on by those who, like Comrade Peskov, like the status of things to be “fixed”…
I know the Ukrainian army will be happy to return all the ammunition the Russians left behind, one well-aimed mortar round at a time.
“The distinctive Ukrainian flag” represents the blue sky and the abundant fields of sunflowers. Sunflower seed oil is a major Ukrainian export.
Dear Lucian - The last word that would come to my mind about your excellent reporting is propaganda. You obviously go through great pains to practice journalism in the best sense of that profession. Having been in it long ago, and having had several friends in it, 50-years ago, I think I’m still able to spot propaganda pretty easily. It was around then too. Please, please keep reporting as you do. I look forward to reading your view of everything you cover.
As for the Russian withdrawal across the river from Kherson, it’s obviously a strategic move meant to give themselves more protection, and effectively a ‘dare’ to the Ukrainians to try and attack them in their new defensive positions by crossing the river, now bridgeless. It would be suicidal, and the Ukrainians must know that. I am no armchair general, and claim no military skills or experience, but it seems to me the Ukrainians are at a disadvantage in the current arrangements in their efforts to push the Russians back further. I’ll resist the temptation to suggest what the Ukrainians should do, but they are obviously quite capable and will figure it out. Just as long as we keep supporting them, and give them essentially everything they want, this horror show might be over, one way or another, by next spring. I hope I’m not being delusional.
I always look to your columns to explain military matters between Ukraine and Russia. Keep up the good reporting, especially at a time when we are more focused on the elections rather than this terrible, needless war.
While Dmitri Peskov may fall short of Baghdad Bob in the truth cut from whole cloth department, telling the Big Lie is a popular model used by others but for the same purpose.
The Russians are starting to sound like Baghdad Bob claiming there were no Allied tanks in Baghdad. But there were....
Russia is losing thee war. This is a fact. Russia has yet to acknowledged that fact. Eventually they will because their audience will have vanished and they will be talking to themselves.
Apparently there have been a very high number of obvious atrocities. IMO, the Russians from top to bottom need to have serious consequences for these actions. It isn’t just Putler. The average Russian soldier is as culpable as Putler 😡‼️
“Putler” — love it!
Please let me kmow if you think I should explain fully in amother comment. Happy to do so!
From the DB: Residents are celebrating the Russians retreating from Kherson.
Dancing in the streets, no less.
https://www.thedailybeast.com/street-parties-underway-as-ukraine-liberates-key-city-of-kherson?ref=home