I have been involved in policing my entire life. People I’ve worked with daily had guns on their hips. I have gone to police officer funerals. I have read homicide files. Yet people are taken aback when I say I do not own a gun. That in fact I hates guns. They have only one purpose. Not to protect. Not to secure. But solely to kill. Whether an animal or human doesn’t matter. It’s a kill machine. A grandfather lost to suicide. A cousin lost to suicide. I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid to people with guns.
Dr. M. Scott Peck wrote “The People of the Lie” to examine evil. Peck was a psychiatrist who had seen evil march into his office and take a seat. It never failed to send cold chills down his spine. He recounts the story of a young suicidal patient he saw. His parents arrived for a conference with Dr. Peck, and reported he had done well over the holidays. His mother reported her son was very happy with his Christmas present — a .22 rifle. Dr. Peck was aghast, and asked why he had received a rifle. Because all his friends had them, and now he was like all his friends. When Dr. Peck mentioned the boy’s past suicidal attempts, both parents dismissed the rifle as being problematic.
Knowing what you are doing is wrong, but continuing to do it, is evil.
We are a society that tolerates evil, in which the population perpetrates and participates in evil, and we fail to call it out for what it is.
People complain about the number of guns and shootings. We do not discuss the nature of evil in this culture, and we seldom have. Outside of churches, it doesn’t get discussed.
this particular shooting incident strikes me as probably the most horrifying BECAUSE of the obviously psychopathic parents. everything about it is pure evil. the issues are obvious: in what world is a gun (let alone a particularly lethal HANDGUN) an appropriate present for a kid? in what way is going to a shooting range using human targets an appropriate mom-and-son activity? in what way is telling your kid not to "get caught" an appropriate response to learning he was shopping for ammunition? one could go on, but the rest of the questions are as obvious as the ones already listed. the one specific thing I find myself agreeing with that fool Bret Stephens about is his opinion that the second amendment no longer makes any sense in today's world. forget the whole issue of that "well-regulated militia" most supporters of the second amendment like to forget. just drop the whole fucking thing. I've lived almost 73 years and have managed to avoid ever discharging a firearm. an old friend tells me (have I posted this before?) that if I fired an AR-15 ONE TIME, I'd be hooked. somehow, I doubt it. but I'm not even close to curious. I was a delighted user of cap guns, but that ended when I was...what? six? seven? thing is, I just don't foresee any sort of commonsense solution to this issue. certainly not in my lifetime....
I’ve fired these things (boot camp, etc.); no—it’s far from “addictive”. Then again, as someone who has required a lot of surgery, I can’t grasp the idea that opioids are oh-so addictive. We are not victims—we have choice. The issue is that too many people don’t have an internalized, moral compass and they seek behaviors offered from outside sources. They are like caged apes—the bars direct where they go. You know—like Trumpanzees.
As someone who's dealt with compulsions and lived with alcoholics, I don't believe that it's all about lacking "an internalized, moral compass," and in any case a moral compass isn't something we're born with. Scientific reports indicate that some of those who get very sick and even die from Covid-19, despite having none of the obvious risk factors, have a particular genetic anomaly that makes them more vulnerable. I believe, though I'm not well versed in the literature, that genetic factors are sometimes at play in addiction as well. In general, we can only extrapolate so far from our own personal experience.
That’s fine. My mother ran a bar and she was herself an alcoholic. Show me ONE that didn’t start drinking out of self pity. No doubt the “chemical imbalances “ develop with substance abuse, but what comes first? The chicken or the egg? I’ve worked with morbidly obese patients —every last one of them began their “compulsion” out of self pity. And if you’ve ever worked with neonates, you’d know that rudimentary personality is there from the start—so having the wherewithal to develop an internalized moral compass may just depend on where your preferences lie at birth on the Myers-Briggs Interest inventory scale. Attributing all alcoholic/substance abuse “an illness” is just a pampering excuse.
There's some resemblance to Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter, whose mother, Nancy, was a "gun enthusiast" who owned all the guns that Lanza used. Nancy was Adam's first victim. It would not have surprised me if Ethan Crumbley had eventually turned his gun on *his* parents. They're lucky he'll never get the chance. (P.S. I earned several NRA badges at summer camp in the early 1960s. I have never felt the urge to own a gun, and only mild curiosity about ever shooting one again.)
This was, to me, the most chilling part of the story: "Ethan was caught searching on his phone for ammunition while in class. When his mother was called by the school and told about the incident, she didn’t respond, but instead texted her son, 'LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.'”
It almost sounds like this mother was ENCOURAGING her kid to load up on ammo, then shoot and kill his classmates! And laughing gleefully at the thought. LOL indeed. That woman is a monster.
it's pretty obvious that's EXACTLY what she was doing. and I would hardly be surprised if those two murderous cretins have a few hundred "safe houses" across the country to hide, feed and praise them.
GoFundMe just took down a site to fund one of the Arbery guys. They don't allow funding when a violent crime has been committed and one's found guilty for it. I believe the guy is Bryan.
What I meant by "almost:" We have proof in her words that she was encouraging her son to buy ammo, but she didn't explicitly encourage him to kill his classmates. I imagine her lawyer will press hard on that point.
Over and over. Those of us who are horrified still are. It seems Congress can still tolerate this and stand in the way of any legislation that could at least slow it down on the way to a stop. This is particularly terrible. The parents are unbelievable and monstrous.
What can be said? All of this is outside any coherent reality. No other society has such a problem. In due time there will be another school shooter and nothing will change.
Australia and guns ..... "In 1997, the year after the Port Arthur massacre, Australia had 6.52 licensed firearm owners per 100 population. By 2020, that proportion had almost halved, to 3.41 licensed gun owners for every 100 people", with about 3,000,000 privately owned guns in a population of 27,000,000. Meanwhile, your American population, approx. 330,000,000 and you own 400,000,000 guns. That's just weird. That's more than 100 guns for every hundred people.
Of course the prosecutor's brilliant move to charge the parents too is a good rebuttal to the choric conservative voices, particularly evident in the Virginia gubernatorial, saying only the parents should have a say in what their kids learn or do.
Truly sickening and disheartening. This kid's parents were well aware of his potential to decompensate and touch off a massacre. If reckless indifference to the consequences is the applicable standard, a case can be made for second degree murder, given the mother's active participation in taking her son to the gun range, and her refusal to take the boy home on the morning of the shooting. We don't know what was said between the two of them earlier, but the mother's text telling her son 'Don't do it' begs the question 'do what'. She knew that her son was on a hair trigger, and her admonition turned out to be too late.
Both parents were involved, not just the killer‘s mother. The killer‘s father took his son to purchase the gun, and both of the killer’s parents were at the school and made the decision that their son should stay in class.
True, but the mom's text message is the crucial evidence of her awareness that her son was a ticking bomb. There is a report that she sent the text after learning about the shootings. If that's the case, her text constitutes what the law calls a 'spontaneous declaration' of her prior awareness that things could go wrong very quickly. No calling it back; the message was date and time stamped. So was the news broadcast. Prosecutors love time lines of when and where events occurred. Being in denial is not a defense to facilitating mass casualty homicide. I don't feel the least bit sympathetic to either of them.
I also think that is a pulsating red point, plus the fact as soon as the father heard, he immediately went home to look for the gun and then dialed 911 that it could be his son.
Apparently when they heard the news reports of the shooting at the school, both parents knew it was their son. The mother texted him: Don't do it and the father called the police and said he was afraid his son was responsible. That pretty much says they knew this Satan spawn was thinking it and capable.
The only way politicians will move on laws making it difficult to purchase and use these killing machines is if they (or members of their families) fall prey to these killers. Even then, I am not sure they would do anything.
A 15 year old male nor a 17 yr old male needs any type of gun. Let’s not forget, mostly all of these school shootings are made by lily white young males. Just looking at these new set of irresponsible parents really proves how much these kids are left up to their own devices. Were they bullied? Are they mentally ill? My college friend, from over 40 years ago, is the grandmother of the youngest child killed at Marjorie Stoneman High School in Florida. Her pain is unbearable.
Yup-- lily-white and therefore treated with tender care by the cops. Funny how these kids, as well as the young-white-adult-male mass shooters aways survive (unless they die by self-inflicted wounds), while black males who've done comparatively little (or nothing) wind up dead, with a dozen or more police bullets in their bodies.
Well, the police took very good care of Kyle Rittenhouse, I believe taking him for a hamburger and I remember something one of them said: He was having a very bad day.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were many UN-recorded comments by the police, apologizing to him for having to arrest him and congratulating him on his actions. At least, though, we have to give Rittenhouse a wee bit of credit for not falling straight into the eagerly awaiting arms of the extreme right-wing politicos panting with eagerness to make him their poster boy.
This: "The number of school shootings may have been reduced if the parents of the children who killed were charged with negligence for not keeping safe the firearms the children used, or even with involuntary manslaughter for what amounts to bad parenting by not properly supervising their children and doing something about behavior they knew to be suspicious or even threatening."
I really do believe that holding parents accountable would save lives. These two deserve the 20 years (each) they will spend behind bars, plus whatever the murderer gets. That's three fewer killers on the loose, in my opinion. Nut cases, all three.
I think we may be horrified when a much lighter verdict comes down. After all, these parents are white, gun-loving, t-Rump worshipers. That has to count in their favor with a lot of people who are totally indifferent to children being killed by guns. They see the deaths of children as mere collateral damage-- the price that must be paid to keep our sacred Second Amendment rights.
I have been involved in policing my entire life. People I’ve worked with daily had guns on their hips. I have gone to police officer funerals. I have read homicide files. Yet people are taken aback when I say I do not own a gun. That in fact I hates guns. They have only one purpose. Not to protect. Not to secure. But solely to kill. Whether an animal or human doesn’t matter. It’s a kill machine. A grandfather lost to suicide. A cousin lost to suicide. I am not afraid of guns. I am afraid to people with guns.
Dr. M. Scott Peck wrote “The People of the Lie” to examine evil. Peck was a psychiatrist who had seen evil march into his office and take a seat. It never failed to send cold chills down his spine. He recounts the story of a young suicidal patient he saw. His parents arrived for a conference with Dr. Peck, and reported he had done well over the holidays. His mother reported her son was very happy with his Christmas present — a .22 rifle. Dr. Peck was aghast, and asked why he had received a rifle. Because all his friends had them, and now he was like all his friends. When Dr. Peck mentioned the boy’s past suicidal attempts, both parents dismissed the rifle as being problematic.
Knowing what you are doing is wrong, but continuing to do it, is evil.
We are a society that tolerates evil, in which the population perpetrates and participates in evil, and we fail to call it out for what it is.
Plenty of people call it out, but nothing ever changes, thanks to the power of the GOP to perpetuate evil and prevent anything good.
.
People complain about the number of guns and shootings. We do not discuss the nature of evil in this culture, and we seldom have. Outside of churches, it doesn’t get discussed.
Given the evil that's coming out of some churches, I wonder what they consider evil. Women having abortions? Same-sex couples getting married?
this particular shooting incident strikes me as probably the most horrifying BECAUSE of the obviously psychopathic parents. everything about it is pure evil. the issues are obvious: in what world is a gun (let alone a particularly lethal HANDGUN) an appropriate present for a kid? in what way is going to a shooting range using human targets an appropriate mom-and-son activity? in what way is telling your kid not to "get caught" an appropriate response to learning he was shopping for ammunition? one could go on, but the rest of the questions are as obvious as the ones already listed. the one specific thing I find myself agreeing with that fool Bret Stephens about is his opinion that the second amendment no longer makes any sense in today's world. forget the whole issue of that "well-regulated militia" most supporters of the second amendment like to forget. just drop the whole fucking thing. I've lived almost 73 years and have managed to avoid ever discharging a firearm. an old friend tells me (have I posted this before?) that if I fired an AR-15 ONE TIME, I'd be hooked. somehow, I doubt it. but I'm not even close to curious. I was a delighted user of cap guns, but that ended when I was...what? six? seven? thing is, I just don't foresee any sort of commonsense solution to this issue. certainly not in my lifetime....
I’ve fired these things (boot camp, etc.); no—it’s far from “addictive”. Then again, as someone who has required a lot of surgery, I can’t grasp the idea that opioids are oh-so addictive. We are not victims—we have choice. The issue is that too many people don’t have an internalized, moral compass and they seek behaviors offered from outside sources. They are like caged apes—the bars direct where they go. You know—like Trumpanzees.
As someone who's dealt with compulsions and lived with alcoholics, I don't believe that it's all about lacking "an internalized, moral compass," and in any case a moral compass isn't something we're born with. Scientific reports indicate that some of those who get very sick and even die from Covid-19, despite having none of the obvious risk factors, have a particular genetic anomaly that makes them more vulnerable. I believe, though I'm not well versed in the literature, that genetic factors are sometimes at play in addiction as well. In general, we can only extrapolate so far from our own personal experience.
Genetic factors can certainly contribute to depression and in our society it is easy to use alcohol to self medicate eventually leading to dependence.
That’s fine. My mother ran a bar and she was herself an alcoholic. Show me ONE that didn’t start drinking out of self pity. No doubt the “chemical imbalances “ develop with substance abuse, but what comes first? The chicken or the egg? I’ve worked with morbidly obese patients —every last one of them began their “compulsion” out of self pity. And if you’ve ever worked with neonates, you’d know that rudimentary personality is there from the start—so having the wherewithal to develop an internalized moral compass may just depend on where your preferences lie at birth on the Myers-Briggs Interest inventory scale. Attributing all alcoholic/substance abuse “an illness” is just a pampering excuse.
Oh, I’ve had more than my fill of alcoholism. I have yet to meet an alcoholic who doesn’t have an underlying personality disorder.
There's some resemblance to Adam Lanza, the Sandy Hook shooter, whose mother, Nancy, was a "gun enthusiast" who owned all the guns that Lanza used. Nancy was Adam's first victim. It would not have surprised me if Ethan Crumbley had eventually turned his gun on *his* parents. They're lucky he'll never get the chance. (P.S. I earned several NRA badges at summer camp in the early 1960s. I have never felt the urge to own a gun, and only mild curiosity about ever shooting one again.)
My husband is a Nam vet and he too has never wanted to own a gun or rifle again. I am very happy he does not have that desire.
This was, to me, the most chilling part of the story: "Ethan was caught searching on his phone for ammunition while in class. When his mother was called by the school and told about the incident, she didn’t respond, but instead texted her son, 'LOL I’m not mad at you. You have to learn not to get caught.'”
It almost sounds like this mother was ENCOURAGING her kid to load up on ammo, then shoot and kill his classmates! And laughing gleefully at the thought. LOL indeed. That woman is a monster.
it's pretty obvious that's EXACTLY what she was doing. and I would hardly be surprised if those two murderous cretins have a few hundred "safe houses" across the country to hide, feed and praise them.
It's interesting that they "disappeared" while their vile offspring sat alone in prison. Great parents, huh?
The Proud Boys, 3%'ers, and other similar ilk will likely start gofundme's for these people. Mom and dad will be proclaimed heroes by the gun nuts.
of course they will.
GoFundMe just took down a site to fund one of the Arbery guys. They don't allow funding when a violent crime has been committed and one's found guilty for it. I believe the guy is Bryan.
“Almost”? She most certainly was an accomplice.
What I meant by "almost:" We have proof in her words that she was encouraging her son to buy ammo, but she didn't explicitly encourage him to kill his classmates. I imagine her lawyer will press hard on that point.
That she texted him after the news went viral: Ethan, don't do it, is very damning.
Without even seeing the photos of this white trash couple, that was my first thought: 100% certainty that they’re t-Rump worshipers.
The mother's ode to Trump, also published, is pretty disgusting. She's rude, crude and violent.
I didn’t know about that, but I am not at all surprised!
Pretty disgusting language and sentiment.
Over and over. Those of us who are horrified still are. It seems Congress can still tolerate this and stand in the way of any legislation that could at least slow it down on the way to a stop. This is particularly terrible. The parents are unbelievable and monstrous.
I can't stand it. But, hey, let's ban abortion because, you know, we're pro-life.
What can be said? All of this is outside any coherent reality. No other society has such a problem. In due time there will be another school shooter and nothing will change.
Not a one of the other 57. Never heard of them. So shooting kids at school is now normal, expected, oh well.
Me either. I guess they're just "local news". Nothing to see here -- unless your son or daughter, brother or sister was one of the casualties.
😔
Australia and guns ..... "In 1997, the year after the Port Arthur massacre, Australia had 6.52 licensed firearm owners per 100 population. By 2020, that proportion had almost halved, to 3.41 licensed gun owners for every 100 people", with about 3,000,000 privately owned guns in a population of 27,000,000. Meanwhile, your American population, approx. 330,000,000 and you own 400,000,000 guns. That's just weird. That's more than 100 guns for every hundred people.
Ghastly.
Of course the prosecutor's brilliant move to charge the parents too is a good rebuttal to the choric conservative voices, particularly evident in the Virginia gubernatorial, saying only the parents should have a say in what their kids learn or do.
Truly sickening and disheartening. This kid's parents were well aware of his potential to decompensate and touch off a massacre. If reckless indifference to the consequences is the applicable standard, a case can be made for second degree murder, given the mother's active participation in taking her son to the gun range, and her refusal to take the boy home on the morning of the shooting. We don't know what was said between the two of them earlier, but the mother's text telling her son 'Don't do it' begs the question 'do what'. She knew that her son was on a hair trigger, and her admonition turned out to be too late.
Both parents were involved, not just the killer‘s mother. The killer‘s father took his son to purchase the gun, and both of the killer’s parents were at the school and made the decision that their son should stay in class.
True, but the mom's text message is the crucial evidence of her awareness that her son was a ticking bomb. There is a report that she sent the text after learning about the shootings. If that's the case, her text constitutes what the law calls a 'spontaneous declaration' of her prior awareness that things could go wrong very quickly. No calling it back; the message was date and time stamped. So was the news broadcast. Prosecutors love time lines of when and where events occurred. Being in denial is not a defense to facilitating mass casualty homicide. I don't feel the least bit sympathetic to either of them.
I also think that is a pulsating red point, plus the fact as soon as the father heard, he immediately went home to look for the gun and then dialed 911 that it could be his son.
...exactly what I meant by "obviously psychopathic."
Apparently when they heard the news reports of the shooting at the school, both parents knew it was their son. The mother texted him: Don't do it and the father called the police and said he was afraid his son was responsible. That pretty much says they knew this Satan spawn was thinking it and capable.
The only way politicians will move on laws making it difficult to purchase and use these killing machines is if they (or members of their families) fall prey to these killers. Even then, I am not sure they would do anything.
They only care about the gun-obsessed white bigots who keep them in office.
Who are we anymore.
Thank you, Lucian. This is a first-rate piece of journalism.
A 15 year old male nor a 17 yr old male needs any type of gun. Let’s not forget, mostly all of these school shootings are made by lily white young males. Just looking at these new set of irresponsible parents really proves how much these kids are left up to their own devices. Were they bullied? Are they mentally ill? My college friend, from over 40 years ago, is the grandmother of the youngest child killed at Marjorie Stoneman High School in Florida. Her pain is unbearable.
Yup-- lily-white and therefore treated with tender care by the cops. Funny how these kids, as well as the young-white-adult-male mass shooters aways survive (unless they die by self-inflicted wounds), while black males who've done comparatively little (or nothing) wind up dead, with a dozen or more police bullets in their bodies.
Well, the police took very good care of Kyle Rittenhouse, I believe taking him for a hamburger and I remember something one of them said: He was having a very bad day.
I wouldn't be at all surprised if there were many UN-recorded comments by the police, apologizing to him for having to arrest him and congratulating him on his actions. At least, though, we have to give Rittenhouse a wee bit of credit for not falling straight into the eagerly awaiting arms of the extreme right-wing politicos panting with eagerness to make him their poster boy.
Rittenhouse just seems like an immature teenager who needs to go home and grow up, pretty much what one of his attorneys said.
Chilling. "The thoughts won't stop. Please help me." Too late now.
This: "The number of school shootings may have been reduced if the parents of the children who killed were charged with negligence for not keeping safe the firearms the children used, or even with involuntary manslaughter for what amounts to bad parenting by not properly supervising their children and doing something about behavior they knew to be suspicious or even threatening."
I really do believe that holding parents accountable would save lives. These two deserve the 20 years (each) they will spend behind bars, plus whatever the murderer gets. That's three fewer killers on the loose, in my opinion. Nut cases, all three.
I think we may be horrified when a much lighter verdict comes down. After all, these parents are white, gun-loving, t-Rump worshipers. That has to count in their favor with a lot of people who are totally indifferent to children being killed by guns. They see the deaths of children as mere collateral damage-- the price that must be paid to keep our sacred Second Amendment rights.
Sadly, I agree with you.