By now Judge Schroeder has lost credibility and the fumbling prosecution has as well. Any casual observer can realize that this trial is a farce, maybe not intended, but it is. At some point even the most crazed partisan will understand that Kyle Rittenhouse is an empty cup and can only be an embarrassment. He's a George Zimmerman wannabe and not much else. Deciding the future of America on this trial is a bit rich. Larry King once warned, "Never judge the country by what you see on TV" He was right. Most of the country is not seriously interested or affected. There's always been crazed millionaires in Texas funding crackpot politics, it's almost an industry down there. What is critical, is Donald Trump, he's a wizard and a dangerous one at that. But remember, there are rational people in the country and they will if needed put a stop to Trump, probably through the courts. We are in a tragic time, overstressed and tired, we could all use a rest.
At the end of the day, and I hate to say it after listening to the entire day of testimony, that Rittenhouse had no business being present there, but he didn't "murder" anyone. It was clear to me at least, judging from what I saw and heard, that he acted in self defense. The problem is this: After 15 minutes of interviews it would have and should have been obvious but because of the political climate and everything else it was a rush to judgment on the part fo the DA. At least this is the way I saw it. Rittenhouse probably should have been charged with Idiocy, stupidity or Moronic Behavior. But murder? No. If a man points a loaded pistol at my face and I have the means to stop him, I'll shoot. If a man decides to stomp my face into the ground and I have the means to stop him, I'll shoot. If a man decides to brain me with a skateboard, I'll shoot. Bottom line on all this is that Rittenhouse is guilty of being a stupid fuckup who should never have been there in the first place... along with everyone else who were there that night.
I agree with everything you said. except for the "crocodile tears" because (as Lucian pointed out) there were no actual TEARS that I could see. some actors are unable to shed tears onstage, but they gt the point across in other ways. but they're very good at it because it's their JOB, and conveying that they're crying is a necessary skill. Rittenhouse ain't no actor and lacks those skills...I wouldn't give him the part if I was auditioning him. and he's a shitty liar. Schroeder, on the other hand, is a pretty good actor, assuming he's playing an asshole hanging judge (although, in this case, the people he's hanging are the prosecutors, who do seem to be the kind of lawyers I wouldn't especially want on MY side).
Speaking of a baby-faced killer! That’s no judge, that’s a judicial stooge with his thumb well-planted on the scales of so-called justice. And it looks as if the men who ambushed and killed Ahmaud Arbery may also get away with murder, also using self-defense as an argument. So it looks as if we are back to liberty and justice for only Republican white men.
I'm as cynical as the next cynical guy, but in the Arbery case, I actually do think it's gonna be hard to get those guys off on every charge. making that video was a big mistake since they accomplished a sho 'nuff old-time lynching. that was the little hopeful voice inside me that very occasionally breaks through the cynicism, but its volume diminishes daily.
I certainly hope you are correct and your description of the killing is apt. My concern is that even with the video their claim to have seen him « trespassing » on the construction site and the fact that he tried to wrest the gun away will be sufficient to get the perps off. And they can actually say that if their intent had been to kill, rather than scare off, they would never have shot the video?
Watching this trial fills me with disgust. This wannabe 'Mericun hero' I shown himself to be simply a whiny little bitch with homicidal tendencies that by all rights ought to send them to jail for the rest of his life. Here's the thing, a criminal defendant has a constitutional right to say nothing at all at his trial, to sit there in the courtroom mute, and require the State and prosecutor to prove their case against him. At the conclusion of the evidence, when the presiding judge charges the jury on the law they are to apply, they are admonished that they cannot hold the defendant's silence in the face of the accusations against him. Absent the State's evidence, the defendant is presumed to be innocent of the charges against him. The state must prove its case against the defendant on the evidence alone, no part of which would include the defendant's own testimony at the trial. Witnesses may be called to testify as to what the defendant is alleged to have said at some time in the past contemporaneously with or subsequent to the commission of a criminal offense for the purpose of establishing motive, opportunity, or consciousness of guilt, but the defendant's testimony in court is not required to achieve a conviction. If the defendant chooses to testify on his own behalf (and most criminal lawyers will not permit their client to testify) the presumption of innocence is gone. The defendant is granted no special grace because he testified on his own behalf; to the contrary, his own testimony is weighed against the testimony of other witnesses for the jury to determine whether he is credible or not. For criminal defendant, his trial testimony is weighed against anything and everything he may have said in the past about the events for which he is now on trial, statements that may have been made before the defendant retained trial counsel. He and his character become an open book.
Kyle Rittenhouse should be thankful that I am not sitting in the jury box evaluating his testimony. Watching him afloat in the sea of tearful self-pity and avoidance of responsibility is absolutely disgusting to watch and to listen to. The idea of Rittenhouse carefully claiming self-defense is patently absurd. He knows it, his lawyers know it, the prosecutor knows it, and so does the presiding judge. We'll see how this thing plays out. Rittenhouse's victims played a role in putting themselves in physical danger by allowing themselves to become part of a mob that engaged in property destruction, but that's a far cry from engaging in mutual combat with guys like Rittenhouse who were fully prepared to use lethal force to make what was essentially a political statement, far distant from their home turf, and with nothing of their own to protect. Rittenhouse' actions are particularly reprehensible because he crossed state lines to participate in this civil disturbance, all the while knowing that his possession of the AR-15 firearm was unlawful, and which he obtained under false pretenses. From my perspective, the people Rittenhouse shot and killed were trying to get the gun away from him. In no way was he threatened by someone pointing a firearm at him. His type of vigilantism should not be tolerated.
You may be correct. But it turns out that two of the people who went after him were less than model citizens. One was a convicted pedophile just released from a mental institution and the other a convicted felon. I don't know about you, but I'm never going to rush a man holding an AR-15 on me and try to take it away from him. That's not bravery, that's stupidity. Seems there's was a lot off it going around that night.
I am not psychic. I cannot see the future. But I have this strong hunch, based on the story and Rittenhouse's history and appearance, that Rittenhouse is an incel. I will not be surprised if his next shooting spree targets women because they won't sleep with him.
I'm not on a sad search for good news. The bad overwhelms the little that is out there. And the things to be optimistic about are soon trashed and the "believers" will henceforth think there are no goodies in there and it's just a Trojan horse.
It is difficult to believe a minor, crossing state lines with an automatic weapon and killing unarmed people won't be found guilty. His law enforcement play-acting preceding the confrontation should seal the guilty verdict. However, considering the flagrant disregard for the law by right-wing political actors in our country and the near absence of consequences for them thusfar I will not be surprised by an acquittal.
We now have permit-free gun carry in Tennessee which I suppose is in keeping with South Carolina's lost motorcycle cause. A demonstration of riding skills is not required for a license in The Palmetto State. Just pay five dollars for paperwork, pass a written exam and off you go. Helmet optional.
On the return leg of a recent motorcycle ride I was passed by local gun boy on Interstate 40 west of downtown Knoxville. He was riding with short pants and a sleeveless shirt, but he did have a pistol on his hip. I suppose that handgun is his all-purpose protection from trouble. Well, good luck to him if that rocket he was riding goes off course. If it does his pistol will be about as helpful as $900 worth of riding leathers to a naked noggin.
Insert "white" before "minor" and "Black" before "people" and it becomes all too easy to believe that Rittenhouse will be acquitted, or found guilty of some BS charge like unlawful possession of a firearm.
exactly what I was thinking, as I tried repeatedly today to stifle my rage and finish all the newspaper accounts I could find of this so-called "trial." what's obvious is Rittenhouse was looking for trouble, isn't very bright and has grown up among people on the far "Right" (inverted commas here indicate that I actually mean "fascist"). add an assault weapon and it all equals murder or even felony murder. he'll probably end up with a few years' probation. but everything about this travesty shrieks slick lawyers, scumbag judge and rehearsal up the ass. as soon as I heard that he took the stand, I figured we could look forward to elaborate (and elaborately prepared) histrionics (including the sobbing mother). obviously, I was (to use a famous Bushism) misunderestimating th level of preparation. and that ringtone is straight out of a lousy Hollywood script. I've witnessed some pretty incredible courtroom antics in 72 years, but this is right up there. maybe at the top. I'm assuming a very little bit of levity because I'm so enraged about this I can't talk about it without starting to worry about my health. and I'm not even especially hypochondriacal. I just keep returning to the thought that we're all done for. and thanks again, Lucian. another fabulous piece. but SO enraging.
I've worked in the legal field for over thirty years and this judge is a particularly odious piece of work. That his phone plays Trump's "rally(money money)" says it all, plus yelling at the defense counsel and it is very disturbing that you cannot call the people he shot "victims" in his courtroom. Whether they were unruly or not, they're still victims of a gun he had no business carrying.
I spent hours in a sick bed with nothing to do except watch the trial. Rittenhouse is guilty of being epically stupid, but murder? No. He probably will be acquitted based on what I saw. The whole point of our system is to hold a fair trail. This is for capitol murder. It's easy to set labels: He's a killer! Murderer! A jury will decide.
This trial is a disaster. The Court is demonstrating to the world that the law is not what the law says, the law is whatever any judge says it is. I was pessimistic about our legal system before this trial. Now I am cynical. There will be many more occasions for armed vigilante justice as the next two national elections draw closer. What are the rules for engagement? Who can carry a firearm into a protest How low is the bar for using deadly violence? This is all up for grabs now at the worst possible moment in our nation's history. The other two branches of government are corrupt dysfunctional and inept, but at least we had the law and hundreds of years of precedent. But No More.
The judge has made it clear that the trial is a formality. Kyle is moving on to fame, fortune, and Fox News. In the words of David Simon's Treme police lieutenant, "Who the fuck brings a gun to a parade?" We know now.
The indictment is that the streets were filled with nutcases, criminals, idiots, and morons of all persuasions posing as "Peaceful Protesters" as they attacked anyone who dared to disagree. If something didn't disagree, say like a liquor store or electronics shop, it had to be broken into and emptied of its goods. This all in the name of "Protest." The entire summer was a shameful step into an even deeper, darker, and more serious anarchy that is sure to come again if we don't come to our senses. It won't be like an NFL game when the gun goes off, it's over and we all go home. No, when the tun goes off, watch out.
I'm no republican fan, but this is more than just republicans. It's way too serious to attach boogie-man blame. Bottom line, the whole system is cancerous and is in dire need of surgery before the patient actually dies. Stop with the republican/democratic name calling and blame. We're all responsible and equally share the blame.
Usually you can nail someone for blaming one side entirely if you've had a conversation about it. This is certainly not my only opinion on this. And I left the Republican Party and became an Independent because the Dems just can't seem to move forward in a meaningful way. So you need not instruct me. I'm not that shallow when you get into the nuts and bolts of it. I'd like to join the Dems and I vote with them but the way they're handling things is doomed to failure.
Thank you for summarizing exactly what is going on in that 'courtroom'. It is a travesty and I have no doubt about the verdict, because every juror is also a Trump supporter.
As I wrote on FB:
"What I'd really like to know is if I can enroll in the same acting class that Kyle Rittenhouse was in so I can act like such a phony?
I'm sure he practiced a very long time to become so hysterical. Especially since he faces life in prison away from his beloved guns.
I hope the jury sees it the same way-he's a narcissistic child who didn't expect to get caught doing something bad.
And the fact that he's lying through his teeth.
I think the prosecutors should demand a retrial immediately as well based on the judge's lack of impartiality. He's acting for the defense, not the law."
However, the jury will vote acquit him because they're easily swayed by bullshit and the judge has already telegraphed his intention to acquit should the jury not.
By now Judge Schroeder has lost credibility and the fumbling prosecution has as well. Any casual observer can realize that this trial is a farce, maybe not intended, but it is. At some point even the most crazed partisan will understand that Kyle Rittenhouse is an empty cup and can only be an embarrassment. He's a George Zimmerman wannabe and not much else. Deciding the future of America on this trial is a bit rich. Larry King once warned, "Never judge the country by what you see on TV" He was right. Most of the country is not seriously interested or affected. There's always been crazed millionaires in Texas funding crackpot politics, it's almost an industry down there. What is critical, is Donald Trump, he's a wizard and a dangerous one at that. But remember, there are rational people in the country and they will if needed put a stop to Trump, probably through the courts. We are in a tragic time, overstressed and tired, we could all use a rest.
Thanks for including the prosecution here. They have made serious mistakes.
At the end of the day, and I hate to say it after listening to the entire day of testimony, that Rittenhouse had no business being present there, but he didn't "murder" anyone. It was clear to me at least, judging from what I saw and heard, that he acted in self defense. The problem is this: After 15 minutes of interviews it would have and should have been obvious but because of the political climate and everything else it was a rush to judgment on the part fo the DA. At least this is the way I saw it. Rittenhouse probably should have been charged with Idiocy, stupidity or Moronic Behavior. But murder? No. If a man points a loaded pistol at my face and I have the means to stop him, I'll shoot. If a man decides to stomp my face into the ground and I have the means to stop him, I'll shoot. If a man decides to brain me with a skateboard, I'll shoot. Bottom line on all this is that Rittenhouse is guilty of being a stupid fuckup who should never have been there in the first place... along with everyone else who were there that night.
I agree with every word and don’t see one sentence that offers any hope things will get better.
Talk about crocodile tears. That was the worst acting I have ever seen. Apparently the white supremacist judge was OK with it though.
I agree with everything you said. except for the "crocodile tears" because (as Lucian pointed out) there were no actual TEARS that I could see. some actors are unable to shed tears onstage, but they gt the point across in other ways. but they're very good at it because it's their JOB, and conveying that they're crying is a necessary skill. Rittenhouse ain't no actor and lacks those skills...I wouldn't give him the part if I was auditioning him. and he's a shitty liar. Schroeder, on the other hand, is a pretty good actor, assuming he's playing an asshole hanging judge (although, in this case, the people he's hanging are the prosecutors, who do seem to be the kind of lawyers I wouldn't especially want on MY side).
Agree totally!
Speaking of a baby-faced killer! That’s no judge, that’s a judicial stooge with his thumb well-planted on the scales of so-called justice. And it looks as if the men who ambushed and killed Ahmaud Arbery may also get away with murder, also using self-defense as an argument. So it looks as if we are back to liberty and justice for only Republican white men.
"Baby-faced"? He looks like a classic incel to me.
WOW! I had exactly the same thought.
I agree. And real ugly fake cry face.
He needs an AR-15 to convince himself he's a man.
I'm as cynical as the next cynical guy, but in the Arbery case, I actually do think it's gonna be hard to get those guys off on every charge. making that video was a big mistake since they accomplished a sho 'nuff old-time lynching. that was the little hopeful voice inside me that very occasionally breaks through the cynicism, but its volume diminishes daily.
I certainly hope you are correct and your description of the killing is apt. My concern is that even with the video their claim to have seen him « trespassing » on the construction site and the fact that he tried to wrest the gun away will be sufficient to get the perps off. And they can actually say that if their intent had been to kill, rather than scare off, they would never have shot the video?
Watching this trial fills me with disgust. This wannabe 'Mericun hero' I shown himself to be simply a whiny little bitch with homicidal tendencies that by all rights ought to send them to jail for the rest of his life. Here's the thing, a criminal defendant has a constitutional right to say nothing at all at his trial, to sit there in the courtroom mute, and require the State and prosecutor to prove their case against him. At the conclusion of the evidence, when the presiding judge charges the jury on the law they are to apply, they are admonished that they cannot hold the defendant's silence in the face of the accusations against him. Absent the State's evidence, the defendant is presumed to be innocent of the charges against him. The state must prove its case against the defendant on the evidence alone, no part of which would include the defendant's own testimony at the trial. Witnesses may be called to testify as to what the defendant is alleged to have said at some time in the past contemporaneously with or subsequent to the commission of a criminal offense for the purpose of establishing motive, opportunity, or consciousness of guilt, but the defendant's testimony in court is not required to achieve a conviction. If the defendant chooses to testify on his own behalf (and most criminal lawyers will not permit their client to testify) the presumption of innocence is gone. The defendant is granted no special grace because he testified on his own behalf; to the contrary, his own testimony is weighed against the testimony of other witnesses for the jury to determine whether he is credible or not. For criminal defendant, his trial testimony is weighed against anything and everything he may have said in the past about the events for which he is now on trial, statements that may have been made before the defendant retained trial counsel. He and his character become an open book.
Kyle Rittenhouse should be thankful that I am not sitting in the jury box evaluating his testimony. Watching him afloat in the sea of tearful self-pity and avoidance of responsibility is absolutely disgusting to watch and to listen to. The idea of Rittenhouse carefully claiming self-defense is patently absurd. He knows it, his lawyers know it, the prosecutor knows it, and so does the presiding judge. We'll see how this thing plays out. Rittenhouse's victims played a role in putting themselves in physical danger by allowing themselves to become part of a mob that engaged in property destruction, but that's a far cry from engaging in mutual combat with guys like Rittenhouse who were fully prepared to use lethal force to make what was essentially a political statement, far distant from their home turf, and with nothing of their own to protect. Rittenhouse' actions are particularly reprehensible because he crossed state lines to participate in this civil disturbance, all the while knowing that his possession of the AR-15 firearm was unlawful, and which he obtained under false pretenses. From my perspective, the people Rittenhouse shot and killed were trying to get the gun away from him. In no way was he threatened by someone pointing a firearm at him. His type of vigilantism should not be tolerated.
You may be correct. But it turns out that two of the people who went after him were less than model citizens. One was a convicted pedophile just released from a mental institution and the other a convicted felon. I don't know about you, but I'm never going to rush a man holding an AR-15 on me and try to take it away from him. That's not bravery, that's stupidity. Seems there's was a lot off it going around that night.
I am not psychic. I cannot see the future. But I have this strong hunch, based on the story and Rittenhouse's history and appearance, that Rittenhouse is an incel. I will not be surprised if his next shooting spree targets women because they won't sleep with him.
This is depressing. But so much that's happening in America is depressing these days.....
I'm not on a sad search for good news. The bad overwhelms the little that is out there. And the things to be optimistic about are soon trashed and the "believers" will henceforth think there are no goodies in there and it's just a Trojan horse.
It is difficult to believe a minor, crossing state lines with an automatic weapon and killing unarmed people won't be found guilty. His law enforcement play-acting preceding the confrontation should seal the guilty verdict. However, considering the flagrant disregard for the law by right-wing political actors in our country and the near absence of consequences for them thusfar I will not be surprised by an acquittal.
We now have permit-free gun carry in Tennessee which I suppose is in keeping with South Carolina's lost motorcycle cause. A demonstration of riding skills is not required for a license in The Palmetto State. Just pay five dollars for paperwork, pass a written exam and off you go. Helmet optional.
On the return leg of a recent motorcycle ride I was passed by local gun boy on Interstate 40 west of downtown Knoxville. He was riding with short pants and a sleeveless shirt, but he did have a pistol on his hip. I suppose that handgun is his all-purpose protection from trouble. Well, good luck to him if that rocket he was riding goes off course. If it does his pistol will be about as helpful as $900 worth of riding leathers to a naked noggin.
Insert "white" before "minor" and "Black" before "people" and it becomes all too easy to believe that Rittenhouse will be acquitted, or found guilty of some BS charge like unlawful possession of a firearm.
exactly what I was thinking, as I tried repeatedly today to stifle my rage and finish all the newspaper accounts I could find of this so-called "trial." what's obvious is Rittenhouse was looking for trouble, isn't very bright and has grown up among people on the far "Right" (inverted commas here indicate that I actually mean "fascist"). add an assault weapon and it all equals murder or even felony murder. he'll probably end up with a few years' probation. but everything about this travesty shrieks slick lawyers, scumbag judge and rehearsal up the ass. as soon as I heard that he took the stand, I figured we could look forward to elaborate (and elaborately prepared) histrionics (including the sobbing mother). obviously, I was (to use a famous Bushism) misunderestimating th level of preparation. and that ringtone is straight out of a lousy Hollywood script. I've witnessed some pretty incredible courtroom antics in 72 years, but this is right up there. maybe at the top. I'm assuming a very little bit of levity because I'm so enraged about this I can't talk about it without starting to worry about my health. and I'm not even especially hypochondriacal. I just keep returning to the thought that we're all done for. and thanks again, Lucian. another fabulous piece. but SO enraging.
I've worked in the legal field for over thirty years and this judge is a particularly odious piece of work. That his phone plays Trump's "rally(money money)" says it all, plus yelling at the defense counsel and it is very disturbing that you cannot call the people he shot "victims" in his courtroom. Whether they were unruly or not, they're still victims of a gun he had no business carrying.
I spent hours in a sick bed with nothing to do except watch the trial. Rittenhouse is guilty of being epically stupid, but murder? No. He probably will be acquitted based on what I saw. The whole point of our system is to hold a fair trail. This is for capitol murder. It's easy to set labels: He's a killer! Murderer! A jury will decide.
This trial is a disaster. The Court is demonstrating to the world that the law is not what the law says, the law is whatever any judge says it is. I was pessimistic about our legal system before this trial. Now I am cynical. There will be many more occasions for armed vigilante justice as the next two national elections draw closer. What are the rules for engagement? Who can carry a firearm into a protest How low is the bar for using deadly violence? This is all up for grabs now at the worst possible moment in our nation's history. The other two branches of government are corrupt dysfunctional and inept, but at least we had the law and hundreds of years of precedent. But No More.
The judge has made it clear that the trial is a formality. Kyle is moving on to fame, fortune, and Fox News. In the words of David Simon's Treme police lieutenant, "Who the fuck brings a gun to a parade?" We know now.
What an indictment of this once proud nation.
The indictment is that the streets were filled with nutcases, criminals, idiots, and morons of all persuasions posing as "Peaceful Protesters" as they attacked anyone who dared to disagree. If something didn't disagree, say like a liquor store or electronics shop, it had to be broken into and emptied of its goods. This all in the name of "Protest." The entire summer was a shameful step into an even deeper, darker, and more serious anarchy that is sure to come again if we don't come to our senses. It won't be like an NFL game when the gun goes off, it's over and we all go home. No, when the tun goes off, watch out.
We're doomed and not just by this but certainly 95% by today's Republican party and its deplorables who are indeed that if nothing else at all.
I'm no republican fan, but this is more than just republicans. It's way too serious to attach boogie-man blame. Bottom line, the whole system is cancerous and is in dire need of surgery before the patient actually dies. Stop with the republican/democratic name calling and blame. We're all responsible and equally share the blame.
Usually you can nail someone for blaming one side entirely if you've had a conversation about it. This is certainly not my only opinion on this. And I left the Republican Party and became an Independent because the Dems just can't seem to move forward in a meaningful way. So you need not instruct me. I'm not that shallow when you get into the nuts and bolts of it. I'd like to join the Dems and I vote with them but the way they're handling things is doomed to failure.
Mary: I happen to agree with everything you just posted. I can also live with certain contradictions. But, I completely agree with you here.
I appreciate that. Thank you. I think to be human is to be filled with contradictions. But then I am finally acknowledging that I am old.
I ASSUME the feds will charge him whether he's acquitted or not.
If they (federal prosecutors) do not, I am well and truly done.
Thank you for summarizing exactly what is going on in that 'courtroom'. It is a travesty and I have no doubt about the verdict, because every juror is also a Trump supporter.
As I wrote on FB:
"What I'd really like to know is if I can enroll in the same acting class that Kyle Rittenhouse was in so I can act like such a phony?
I'm sure he practiced a very long time to become so hysterical. Especially since he faces life in prison away from his beloved guns.
I hope the jury sees it the same way-he's a narcissistic child who didn't expect to get caught doing something bad.
And the fact that he's lying through his teeth.
I think the prosecutors should demand a retrial immediately as well based on the judge's lack of impartiality. He's acting for the defense, not the law."
However, the jury will vote acquit him because they're easily swayed by bullshit and the judge has already telegraphed his intention to acquit should the jury not.
It's just plain disgusting and revolting.
There are no words that can describe the hypocrisy of American justice. Thank you for this column.
Doomed indeed.