Apr 8, 2023·edited Apr 8, 2023Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
Nice Madame Defarge reference!:
"What does Madame Defarge knitting symbolize?
She represents one aspect of the Fates. The Moirai (the Fates as represented in Greek mythology) used yarn to measure out the life of a man, and cut it to end it; Defarge knits, and her knitting secretly encodes the names of people to be killed. "
“So much was closing in about the women who sat knitting, knitting, that they their very selves were closing in around a structure yet unbuilt, where they were to sit knitting, knitting, counting dropping heads.”
Apr 8, 2023·edited Apr 8, 2023Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
Wellwellwell. As a long ago English/journalism major, I read Dickens for course credit. Must have accessed a yet undead brain cell for the "knitting" comment when I drank coffee, medicated my headache and posted my comment. Thank you.
Apr 8, 2023·edited Apr 8, 2023Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
That make sense to me!
A while ago I was trying to post a comment (had too many tabs open, was lost in the interwebs digital abyss, I guess) suggesting a strong contrast between Elon Musk, who was described on here as "ugly," and --- taking it as literal physical ugliness, apart from his odious acts and self-involved statements - --- the fictional character Princess Mary Bolkonski, in War and Peace.
Tolstoy emphasizes that though she was rather homely, her *luminous smile, * and overall character transfigured her into being beloved, and seen as beautiful.
Precisely the opposite with Musk. He manages to unconsciously contort his features into a sneering, smug, condescending, entitled billionaire's visage; throw in the constant evidence of possessing zero social conscience, and very little political nous, well, it's astounding!
I was just reading the description of Marya Bolkonsky in War and Peace this afternoon! Inner beauty will always shine through and, in the long run, outshine physical beauty. When a person lacks both inner beauty and physical beauty one can only hope that they will have an experience that will point them to the path to inner beauty. Perhaps Musk will get there but it seems like wealth usually makes such a metamorphosis extremely unlikely.
I copyedited the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation about 15 years ago. LOVED it, and got a lovely note from Pevear later to the effect that my editing was "thorough, sensitive, accurate, and witty" (can't recall what order the adjectives were in). I especially liked the "witty" part. The ms. was ca. 2,300 pp long.
Whoa, that's next on my list,* I was wowed by their translation of The Brothers Karamazov - just looked up current prices for a good used copy online from the usual sources, if anyone is interested, it's like $8 for arguably the greatest single novel ever written. Of course it is* ARGUABLY* as there's always dissent and critical options, very healthy thing, too! --- damn, that's a real freakin' task, too, and to get such deserved praise, how cool is that!!
* I read the Aylmer & Louise Maude translation first, you may recall the edition with all the maps, character list for guidance (I was all of 16 years old and appreciated that immensely), just seemed drawn to it one afternoon at the Des Moines Public Library, without seeking it out. Synchronicity or something.
that's pretty interesting and I bet the job was fun (if a huge amount of work). thing is, Pevear and Volokhonsky have worked out a "profile" based on the assumption that their translations are the best and most accurate ones. since most Americans most don't know Russian, a lot of readers have bought this line.
I do have a few close friends who are serious Russian scholars, and their take on the quality of the Pevears' work is a much more skeptical (and even jaundiced) one.
I will say that Pevear published a thin volume of his selected poems well before this whole translation project got underway, and it was very good. too bad there hasn't been another one. and based on what I've heard (and what you've just related), he sounds like a pretty good guy.
stylistically (the only criterion I have, being a monoglot), I have found their prose to be, on many occasions, clumsy and opaque. I REALLY dislike their Chekhov, whose work I know well and who is one of my five or six favorite writers (and, for my money, the second-best playwright in human history).
I had an Italian neighbor (who moved out a few years back) who worked steadily as a professional translator. one day she told Rochelle (who spoke Italian) that she managed to finish what the critics considered a magnificent Italian translation of--of all things--"Ulysses." when I asked her how she managed, she just sorta shrugged and said "it's my job and it just took a little more time."
an awesome answer, I thought...just doing her job. wow.
I like how you saw Madame Defarge in the knitting reference. I just finished reading A Tale of Two Cities recently so Madame Defarge's knitting is still very fresh in this old brain. I thought that story seemed relevant to what's going on right now here in the US.
If the link works, you can listen to a tremendously expressive, dramatic reading of A Christmas Carol --- the very first minutes will tip you off why this was an annual tradition for many years on Iowa Public Radio, by the late great Doug Brown.
I have tried to find his reading of The Great Railway Bazaar by Paul Theroux, too, but no luck yet.
Edit: I just found this online a few weeks ago, it works, at least on this PC, will save this for the Xmas season! It did crash but a reload worked to play through with no problems.
for several years, WBAI had a complete reading of "Ulysses" every Bloomsday (June 16th). a fabulous "tradition" that ended one year, when they decided to read selected chapters at Symphony Space (B'way in the 90's). nice, but it was better hearing the whole thing. read aloud, "Ulysses" is a very funny book when it's experienced that way, and there are now about half a dozen really excellent audiobook versions.
You stated it clearly: supporting Substack writers is bad, posting national security leaks to Russia and China good. This from a guy who receives huge government subsidies for SpaceX.
“Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”
I would consider sharing Pentagon and U.S. intelligence secrets “giving them Aid and Comfort” wouldn’t you?"
Oh, HELL YES! Do it, please, DOJ-bust Elon Musk for treason, revoke his citizenship and send him back to South Africa where he came from. He's a naturalized citizen, subject to the same laws all of us are .
Once he gets deported, they can sell Twitter to someone who isn't a traitor.
Fuck Traitor Eloon! I have been driving a Chevy Volt for nine years and it's a great car. I used to aspire to own a Tesla Model S, but that jerkhole has ruined the brand for me. Fortunately, there are a lot of cool electric cars coming on the market. Let's make him irrelevant.
Hell's bells, their inane base voters, some of them anyway, fall for this malarkey.
And they have no excuses, it's not as if there isn't a vast array of media and other resources in the town square, available for their benefit, a basic education about all of this is not onerous to locate. No argument that they are being *brainwashed* a la North Korea, nope, nothing like that!
They have opted for ignorance and backwardness. The rest of the social fabric is threatened by their decision to ruin wild with scissors, so to speak.
Apr 9, 2023·edited Apr 9, 2023Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
I'm just refusing to deny them their own agency, their own responsibility, in becoming so detached from reality. There are plenty of routes to a *basic education* about Trump and the thrust of his ethnocentric, woman-hating, bigoted, lying politics.
No future accounts allowed from them, in other words, where they mimic the *Good Germans* after.....{WOW!! --- I have the NCAA Frozen Four Hockey Championship game minimized via a screen-in screen, , only, here in Minneapolis 8 blocks from the campus I can HEAR the cheers, with windows open in this first burst of warm spring temps, as it's now Minnesota Golden Gophers 2, Quinnipiac Pollsters, 0......ok back to the political $#@!up unfolding...ahhhhh, !Damn!, just like that! it's 2-1, anyway}
... So after May 8, 1945, VE Day, we have the Germans having to deal with the Gotterdammerung wrought by Hitler and with their complicity --- most of us have seen films, and/or read about, the "Good Germans" who insisted, once the questions became unavoidable for them, they knew NOTHING about the death camps. Buchenwald, Auschwitz , Treblinka, no matter where, nothing.
The *Final Solution* outlined at the Wannsee Conference of Hitler's top criminals in January, 1942, nothing, a complete blank; the women were, ostensibly, just engaged with *Kinder, Kuchen, Kirche,*
And the men offered various excuses, all of which rang hollow, later to be transmuted into a major theme in the brilliant, haunting novel published in 1959, by Heinrich Boll,
--- Assigned reading in my Humanities course years ago, The Faustian Archetype in German Art, Literature and Music. We read Goethe's Faust, all sorts of readings about the Faust myth, including also Doktor Faustus, by Thomas Mann, who had to flee the rise of fascism very early, in 1931 -
This is one terrifying book! I will leave it at that.
****** and Boll's novel was one of them. You could say I am definitely prepared to study the MAGA cult phenomenon, in that sense, since I have studied some of their predecessors!
Our very own cult of nitwits, irrespective of their education or lack of same, here in the good ole USA, podner, concluding and continuing their Faustian pact with, not exactly *the Devil,* {whatever that would mean) in the form of the pathetic Trump, more like a ferocious, destructive, demonic energy Trump and his enablers have summoned up. So, amounts to the same thing, just not with any *supernatural* b.s. attached. That would play into having to take their Last Days and then The Rapture gibberish seriously, too.
That's admittedly a VERY roundabout way of just saying, " No excuses for these incipient and/or already committed neo-fascists will suffice, the Trump cult can't get off the hook so easily!"
I write a lot of my comments with mixed motives, one of which is to clarify my own thinking about this mess. Time to leave this and watch the 3rd Period, thanks to the gods and goddesses of entertainment for such distractions!
****** Eh donc, c'est vie, the Gophers were tied 3-3, lost in OT 4-3, they gave it the *old college try*
that's ya can duuuuu! {best heard in heavy Minneee-SOH-tah, quasi-regional accent!}
Arrest him for being in possession of digital copies of Top Secret documents. He can't be prosecuted for putting them on line,but allowing them to remain on Twitter, that's on Musk.
I believe the treason clause in the Constitution applies if we are at war with some other entity, which we are not. So who is the enemy? Musk is a giant schmuck, and dangerous, so are *Rump and DeSatan, and all the heavily armed so-called militias. They all want to overthrow the government, but the threat has been allowed to grow without serious intervention for decades. Right wing elements within our government, and in the military are sympathetic to authoritarian rule, pro-putin,, anti-Ukraine. The statutes governing revealing classified information certainluy apply, but in the absence of any legislation defining the nature of ‘treason’,
I'm thinking _Man for All Seasons_ again, that bit about giving the Devil benefit of law for one's own safety's sake. Some of y'all are old enough to remember the baying for Daniel Ellsberg's blood over the release of the Pentagon Papers. (Ellsberg was indeed charged with espionage, but the government pretty much blew the case.) There are certainly differences between the two cases, e.g., Ellsberg worked for a defense contractor, not to mention that Ellsberg has a conscience and I'm pretty sure Musk doesn't. But in both cases the offense was making information public, not giving it to an enemy power. (Which reminds me: We still don't know what Trump did, or planned to do, with the classified documents he stole.)
Yes, yes, and yes. Who benefits from these leaks? Not the US, not NATO, not Ukraine, nor Russia. In whose interest is it to make this information public? Is it, as you suggest, a Trump holdover in the intelligence services who wants to dampen support for the war in Ukraine and for Joe Biden? I can't think of any government that would get any advantage, can you?
Elon Musk is a "libertarian". He loves the protection of the United States and its laws, but he bridles at any restrictions that living in a civilized society impose on him and his desire to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. His company (Tesla) would be nowhere without the tax credits for buying EVs.
But the burden of doing business here is unbearable, apparently. Second, he is a complete jerk. Please just go far, far away and STFU.
Apr 9, 2023·edited Apr 9, 2023Liked by Lucian K. Truscott IV
It's time to shoot down Elon Musk's balloon, much the way that Air Force F-22 shot down that Chinese surveillance balloon earlier last month. I don't think that there's anything in the Internet Safe Harbor statute that excuses and Internet service provider from knowingly posting national security information on his website, even if that information was stolen by somebody else. The unique circumstances of Elon Musk buying twitter, and running it like his own personal fiefdom, militates against allowing him to claim the benefit of a social media company that is open to all comers, when that is obviously not the case. If he knows that he has information on his website that was obviously purloined from American intelligence sources, he has an obligation to take it down. That is part and parcel of his oath of allegiance that he made to the United States when he became a citizen. As far as I can see, Musk's refusal to take down the classified material puts him squarely within the ambit of the Espionage Act of 1917. He is not, like Julian Assange, holding himself out as a neutral third-party engaged in news gathering and dissemination. Twitter is nothing more than a gossip column posing as a chat room.
This is what happens when an arrogant jerk comes into too much money. He can hire a battalion of lawyers, and still find himself at the receiving end of a long prison sentence for espionage. No judge is going to entertain the idea that is somehow immune from prosecution because he owns a social media outlet that he treats these as his own personal bullhorn. Maybe he would like to ask the Murdochs what it feels like to be on the receiving end of a legal avalanche. It goes without saying that people who find themselves wealthy beyond most people's imaginations tend to think of themselves as being apart from the obligations that society imposes on citizens generally. Musk could buy himself an entire country, and he would still need to conform to international norms of behavior. His wealth does not make him some sort of superhero; and he would profit by looking at what is happening now to Donald Trump, former president of the United States, who now finds himself in the criminal dock accused of diverse felonies, with more undoubtedly soon to follow. The ultra rich spend their money unwisely because they think that their wealth, and of itself, gives them some sort of 'get-out-of-jail-free card'.
In his appearance of the year or so ago on Saturday Night Live, Musk alluded to his wooden sense of humor by mentioning to his being on the autism spectrum. That garnered him some sympathy that evening because people on the spectrum often fail to see double entendres were other forms of hidden meaning in human language. That's not going to give him a pass on matters that he knows from a factual standpoint that if it continues on this path he will end up in deep trouble, regardless of his wealth, his economic clout, and the legions of lawyers and other certificated professionals he can hire to defend himself. The law does not give a pass to those who were psychologically impaired, as Donald Trump is finding out today. The fact that another ultra-wealthy man who could probably buy and sell Donald Trump several times over has his own pet peeves and grievances is not going to save him from prosecution from possessing what he has no right to own or even have posted on a website that he controls, even if he did not do the posting himself. This point is so obvious that anyone with an ounce of common sense could understand the jeopardy that Elon Musk will soon be finding himself in, because at some level he knows the trouble that awaits them if he persists in his perversity and obstinance. He is picking the wrong fight, and with people who would happily put him in jail. Both Donald J Trump and Elon Musk appear to share a common propensity to claim ownership over stuff that they are not allowed to have. Trump is likely to be indicted, perhaps within the month, for unlawfully retaining national security secret materials that he is not permitted to have in his possession; likewise, Elon Musk is also claiming some sort of proprietary right over materials that someone else placed on his twitter website. Neither of these two men appreciate the risks involved to themselves, because each of them sees himself as somehow sovereign because he owns or controls a great deal of money. Money does not confer sovereignty, and bribing the sovereign is not an option. I will be curious to see how this plays out; and it would be sad to see Musk's psychological rigidity blind him to the realities that he faces as a potential criminal defendant.
(Trying to finish my thought below. Am riding in a rickety bus, and I posted accidentally.) In the absence of legislation further defining the nature of ‘treason’ prosecution for that offense is very difficult. Musk is a naturalized citizen, and deporting him for any other reason than being a convicted war criminal would be very hard. I’m definitely no fan of his, but I do believe in the rule of law.
Irrefutable reason for prosecution-worthy treason charge. I'll take up knitting while I wait for this to occur.
Nice Madame Defarge reference!:
"What does Madame Defarge knitting symbolize?
She represents one aspect of the Fates. The Moirai (the Fates as represented in Greek mythology) used yarn to measure out the life of a man, and cut it to end it; Defarge knits, and her knitting secretly encodes the names of people to be killed. "
“So much was closing in about the women who sat knitting, knitting, that they their very selves were closing in around a structure yet unbuilt, where they were to sit knitting, knitting, counting dropping heads.”
― Charles Dickens, A Tale of Two Cities
Wellwellwell. As a long ago English/journalism major, I read Dickens for course credit. Must have accessed a yet undead brain cell for the "knitting" comment when I drank coffee, medicated my headache and posted my comment. Thank you.
That make sense to me!
A while ago I was trying to post a comment (had too many tabs open, was lost in the interwebs digital abyss, I guess) suggesting a strong contrast between Elon Musk, who was described on here as "ugly," and --- taking it as literal physical ugliness, apart from his odious acts and self-involved statements - --- the fictional character Princess Mary Bolkonski, in War and Peace.
Tolstoy emphasizes that though she was rather homely, her *luminous smile, * and overall character transfigured her into being beloved, and seen as beautiful.
Precisely the opposite with Musk. He manages to unconsciously contort his features into a sneering, smug, condescending, entitled billionaire's visage; throw in the constant evidence of possessing zero social conscience, and very little political nous, well, it's astounding!
I was just reading the description of Marya Bolkonsky in War and Peace this afternoon! Inner beauty will always shine through and, in the long run, outshine physical beauty. When a person lacks both inner beauty and physical beauty one can only hope that they will have an experience that will point them to the path to inner beauty. Perhaps Musk will get there but it seems like wealth usually makes such a metamorphosis extremely unlikely.
Indeed.
Must admit, I abandoned attempt at War & Peace moons ago. Will try again.
I copyedited the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation about 15 years ago. LOVED it, and got a lovely note from Pevear later to the effect that my editing was "thorough, sensitive, accurate, and witty" (can't recall what order the adjectives were in). I especially liked the "witty" part. The ms. was ca. 2,300 pp long.
That was labor. But from love.
Whoa, that's next on my list,* I was wowed by their translation of The Brothers Karamazov - just looked up current prices for a good used copy online from the usual sources, if anyone is interested, it's like $8 for arguably the greatest single novel ever written. Of course it is* ARGUABLY* as there's always dissent and critical options, very healthy thing, too! --- damn, that's a real freakin' task, too, and to get such deserved praise, how cool is that!!
* I read the Aylmer & Louise Maude translation first, you may recall the edition with all the maps, character list for guidance (I was all of 16 years old and appreciated that immensely), just seemed drawn to it one afternoon at the Des Moines Public Library, without seeking it out. Synchronicity or something.
that's pretty interesting and I bet the job was fun (if a huge amount of work). thing is, Pevear and Volokhonsky have worked out a "profile" based on the assumption that their translations are the best and most accurate ones. since most Americans most don't know Russian, a lot of readers have bought this line.
I do have a few close friends who are serious Russian scholars, and their take on the quality of the Pevears' work is a much more skeptical (and even jaundiced) one.
I will say that Pevear published a thin volume of his selected poems well before this whole translation project got underway, and it was very good. too bad there hasn't been another one. and based on what I've heard (and what you've just related), he sounds like a pretty good guy.
stylistically (the only criterion I have, being a monoglot), I have found their prose to be, on many occasions, clumsy and opaque. I REALLY dislike their Chekhov, whose work I know well and who is one of my five or six favorite writers (and, for my money, the second-best playwright in human history).
I had an Italian neighbor (who moved out a few years back) who worked steadily as a professional translator. one day she told Rochelle (who spoke Italian) that she managed to finish what the critics considered a magnificent Italian translation of--of all things--"Ulysses." when I asked her how she managed, she just sorta shrugged and said "it's my job and it just took a little more time."
an awesome answer, I thought...just doing her job. wow.
Do give it another try!
I will. Promise.
Well put.
Knitting Circle for hire!
I like how you saw Madame Defarge in the knitting reference. I just finished reading A Tale of Two Cities recently so Madame Defarge's knitting is still very fresh in this old brain. I thought that story seemed relevant to what's going on right now here in the US.
I think really great writers can produce timeless narratives, and Dickens qualifies for sure.
drive.google.com/file/d/1iZe9W3PKSP-Hq8yBhm03OZVtJepnVatQ/view
^^^^^^^
Christmas_Carol_by_Doug_Brown.mp3
^^^^^
If the link works, you can listen to a tremendously expressive, dramatic reading of A Christmas Carol --- the very first minutes will tip you off why this was an annual tradition for many years on Iowa Public Radio, by the late great Doug Brown.
I have tried to find his reading of The Great Railway Bazaar by Paul Theroux, too, but no luck yet.
Edit: I just found this online a few weeks ago, it works, at least on this PC, will save this for the Xmas season! It did crash but a reload worked to play through with no problems.
for several years, WBAI had a complete reading of "Ulysses" every Bloomsday (June 16th). a fabulous "tradition" that ended one year, when they decided to read selected chapters at Symphony Space (B'way in the 90's). nice, but it was better hearing the whole thing. read aloud, "Ulysses" is a very funny book when it's experienced that way, and there are now about half a dozen really excellent audiobook versions.
I remember the knitting reference from 10th grade English!
You stated it clearly: supporting Substack writers is bad, posting national security leaks to Russia and China good. This from a guy who receives huge government subsidies for SpaceX.
And $7500 for every Tesla sold...talk about a welfare case!
“Article III, Section 3, Clause 1: Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort.”
I would consider sharing Pentagon and U.S. intelligence secrets “giving them Aid and Comfort” wouldn’t you?"
Oh, HELL YES! Do it, please, DOJ-bust Elon Musk for treason, revoke his citizenship and send him back to South Africa where he came from. He's a naturalized citizen, subject to the same laws all of us are .
Once he gets deported, they can sell Twitter to someone who isn't a traitor.
Fuck Traitor Eloon! I have been driving a Chevy Volt for nine years and it's a great car. I used to aspire to own a Tesla Model S, but that jerkhole has ruined the brand for me. Fortunately, there are a lot of cool electric cars coming on the market. Let's make him irrelevant.
Chevy Bolt is also a great car. Made in Michigan by union workers.
My cousin was considering a Tesla as well, but wouldn't take one now if you gave it to him.
Same here. I live in Redmond, Washington where every third car is a Tesla. Elmo ruined the brand
How about checking with Republican members of the House Intelligence Committee.
They will blame it on Hunter Biden and AOC.
Hell's bells, their inane base voters, some of them anyway, fall for this malarkey.
And they have no excuses, it's not as if there isn't a vast array of media and other resources in the town square, available for their benefit, a basic education about all of this is not onerous to locate. No argument that they are being *brainwashed* a la North Korea, nope, nothing like that!
They have opted for ignorance and backwardness. The rest of the social fabric is threatened by their decision to ruin wild with scissors, so to speak.
Basic education and MAGAts?
I'm just refusing to deny them their own agency, their own responsibility, in becoming so detached from reality. There are plenty of routes to a *basic education* about Trump and the thrust of his ethnocentric, woman-hating, bigoted, lying politics.
No future accounts allowed from them, in other words, where they mimic the *Good Germans* after.....{WOW!! --- I have the NCAA Frozen Four Hockey Championship game minimized via a screen-in screen, , only, here in Minneapolis 8 blocks from the campus I can HEAR the cheers, with windows open in this first burst of warm spring temps, as it's now Minnesota Golden Gophers 2, Quinnipiac Pollsters, 0......ok back to the political $#@!up unfolding...ahhhhh, !Damn!, just like that! it's 2-1, anyway}
... So after May 8, 1945, VE Day, we have the Germans having to deal with the Gotterdammerung wrought by Hitler and with their complicity --- most of us have seen films, and/or read about, the "Good Germans" who insisted, once the questions became unavoidable for them, they knew NOTHING about the death camps. Buchenwald, Auschwitz , Treblinka, no matter where, nothing.
The *Final Solution* outlined at the Wannsee Conference of Hitler's top criminals in January, 1942, nothing, a complete blank; the women were, ostensibly, just engaged with *Kinder, Kuchen, Kirche,*
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinder,_Küche,_Kirche
*****
And the men offered various excuses, all of which rang hollow, later to be transmuted into a major theme in the brilliant, haunting novel published in 1959, by Heinrich Boll,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billiards_at_Half-Past_Nine
*****
--- Assigned reading in my Humanities course years ago, The Faustian Archetype in German Art, Literature and Music. We read Goethe's Faust, all sorts of readings about the Faust myth, including also Doktor Faustus, by Thomas Mann, who had to flee the rise of fascism very early, in 1931 -
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Faustus_(novel)
This is one terrifying book! I will leave it at that.
****** and Boll's novel was one of them. You could say I am definitely prepared to study the MAGA cult phenomenon, in that sense, since I have studied some of their predecessors!
Our very own cult of nitwits, irrespective of their education or lack of same, here in the good ole USA, podner, concluding and continuing their Faustian pact with, not exactly *the Devil,* {whatever that would mean) in the form of the pathetic Trump, more like a ferocious, destructive, demonic energy Trump and his enablers have summoned up. So, amounts to the same thing, just not with any *supernatural* b.s. attached. That would play into having to take their Last Days and then The Rapture gibberish seriously, too.
That's admittedly a VERY roundabout way of just saying, " No excuses for these incipient and/or already committed neo-fascists will suffice, the Trump cult can't get off the hook so easily!"
I write a lot of my comments with mixed motives, one of which is to clarify my own thinking about this mess. Time to leave this and watch the 3rd Period, thanks to the gods and goddesses of entertainment for such distractions!
****** Eh donc, c'est vie, the Gophers were tied 3-3, lost in OT 4-3, they gave it the *old college try*
that's ya can duuuuu! {best heard in heavy Minneee-SOH-tah, quasi-regional accent!}
tfg: "We love the poorly educated."
Don't we have a special punishment for traitors?
Yes. And it isn't pretty. I think my knitting instructions include the word "drop."
Arrest him for being in possession of digital copies of Top Secret documents. He can't be prosecuted for putting them on line,but allowing them to remain on Twitter, that's on Musk.
I believe the treason clause in the Constitution applies if we are at war with some other entity, which we are not. So who is the enemy? Musk is a giant schmuck, and dangerous, so are *Rump and DeSatan, and all the heavily armed so-called militias. They all want to overthrow the government, but the threat has been allowed to grow without serious intervention for decades. Right wing elements within our government, and in the military are sympathetic to authoritarian rule, pro-putin,, anti-Ukraine. The statutes governing revealing classified information certainluy apply, but in the absence of any legislation defining the nature of ‘treason’,
I fudged the treason thing a little, but with Elon Musk, why not?
A judicious use of hyperbole is always in order!
Cf. Without music, life would be a mistake.
--- Nietzsche
I'm thinking _Man for All Seasons_ again, that bit about giving the Devil benefit of law for one's own safety's sake. Some of y'all are old enough to remember the baying for Daniel Ellsberg's blood over the release of the Pentagon Papers. (Ellsberg was indeed charged with espionage, but the government pretty much blew the case.) There are certainly differences between the two cases, e.g., Ellsberg worked for a defense contractor, not to mention that Ellsberg has a conscience and I'm pretty sure Musk doesn't. But in both cases the offense was making information public, not giving it to an enemy power. (Which reminds me: We still don't know what Trump did, or planned to do, with the classified documents he stole.)
He may be a brilliant engineer - although I'm starting to have my doubts about that. But this is just over the top. Both actions.
His constant, almost manic, need to be the center of attention makes me wonder if he has some "Daddy" issues. Asking for a friend.
Back in the day when I was a US Army Intell Special Agent this would have been a 'terminal condition.'
Yes, yes, and yes. Who benefits from these leaks? Not the US, not NATO, not Ukraine, nor Russia. In whose interest is it to make this information public? Is it, as you suggest, a Trump holdover in the intelligence services who wants to dampen support for the war in Ukraine and for Joe Biden? I can't think of any government that would get any advantage, can you?
Despicable! We all knew for a while that this guy is dangerous and now he should be
prosecuted as a traitor and not in a few years from now either!! Here we have Julian Assange
languishing in prison for decades (if I am off on this - it certainly seems like that) .
Social Media has certainly done a lot of damage and continues to do so.............
It doesn't seem that our security is very good no matter who leaked it.
Elon Musk is a "libertarian". He loves the protection of the United States and its laws, but he bridles at any restrictions that living in a civilized society impose on him and his desire to do whatever he wants whenever he wants. His company (Tesla) would be nowhere without the tax credits for buying EVs.
But the burden of doing business here is unbearable, apparently. Second, he is a complete jerk. Please just go far, far away and STFU.
It's time to shoot down Elon Musk's balloon, much the way that Air Force F-22 shot down that Chinese surveillance balloon earlier last month. I don't think that there's anything in the Internet Safe Harbor statute that excuses and Internet service provider from knowingly posting national security information on his website, even if that information was stolen by somebody else. The unique circumstances of Elon Musk buying twitter, and running it like his own personal fiefdom, militates against allowing him to claim the benefit of a social media company that is open to all comers, when that is obviously not the case. If he knows that he has information on his website that was obviously purloined from American intelligence sources, he has an obligation to take it down. That is part and parcel of his oath of allegiance that he made to the United States when he became a citizen. As far as I can see, Musk's refusal to take down the classified material puts him squarely within the ambit of the Espionage Act of 1917. He is not, like Julian Assange, holding himself out as a neutral third-party engaged in news gathering and dissemination. Twitter is nothing more than a gossip column posing as a chat room.
This is what happens when an arrogant jerk comes into too much money. He can hire a battalion of lawyers, and still find himself at the receiving end of a long prison sentence for espionage. No judge is going to entertain the idea that is somehow immune from prosecution because he owns a social media outlet that he treats these as his own personal bullhorn. Maybe he would like to ask the Murdochs what it feels like to be on the receiving end of a legal avalanche. It goes without saying that people who find themselves wealthy beyond most people's imaginations tend to think of themselves as being apart from the obligations that society imposes on citizens generally. Musk could buy himself an entire country, and he would still need to conform to international norms of behavior. His wealth does not make him some sort of superhero; and he would profit by looking at what is happening now to Donald Trump, former president of the United States, who now finds himself in the criminal dock accused of diverse felonies, with more undoubtedly soon to follow. The ultra rich spend their money unwisely because they think that their wealth, and of itself, gives them some sort of 'get-out-of-jail-free card'.
In his appearance of the year or so ago on Saturday Night Live, Musk alluded to his wooden sense of humor by mentioning to his being on the autism spectrum. That garnered him some sympathy that evening because people on the spectrum often fail to see double entendres were other forms of hidden meaning in human language. That's not going to give him a pass on matters that he knows from a factual standpoint that if it continues on this path he will end up in deep trouble, regardless of his wealth, his economic clout, and the legions of lawyers and other certificated professionals he can hire to defend himself. The law does not give a pass to those who were psychologically impaired, as Donald Trump is finding out today. The fact that another ultra-wealthy man who could probably buy and sell Donald Trump several times over has his own pet peeves and grievances is not going to save him from prosecution from possessing what he has no right to own or even have posted on a website that he controls, even if he did not do the posting himself. This point is so obvious that anyone with an ounce of common sense could understand the jeopardy that Elon Musk will soon be finding himself in, because at some level he knows the trouble that awaits them if he persists in his perversity and obstinance. He is picking the wrong fight, and with people who would happily put him in jail. Both Donald J Trump and Elon Musk appear to share a common propensity to claim ownership over stuff that they are not allowed to have. Trump is likely to be indicted, perhaps within the month, for unlawfully retaining national security secret materials that he is not permitted to have in his possession; likewise, Elon Musk is also claiming some sort of proprietary right over materials that someone else placed on his twitter website. Neither of these two men appreciate the risks involved to themselves, because each of them sees himself as somehow sovereign because he owns or controls a great deal of money. Money does not confer sovereignty, and bribing the sovereign is not an option. I will be curious to see how this plays out; and it would be sad to see Musk's psychological rigidity blind him to the realities that he faces as a potential criminal defendant.
Oh yeah!
(Trying to finish my thought below. Am riding in a rickety bus, and I posted accidentally.) In the absence of legislation further defining the nature of ‘treason’ prosecution for that offense is very difficult. Musk is a naturalized citizen, and deporting him for any other reason than being a convicted war criminal would be very hard. I’m definitely no fan of his, but I do believe in the rule of law.
Ah, just this once?!?
Just kidding, you're right.
LT I think the sub stack issue is very personal and deliberate. Definitely not random especially in light of everything else going on.
I think you're right. Maybe Matt Taibbi can talk some sense into him. Oh, I forgot. Matt left his sense on the doorstep.