Linda and I looked at each other also and, well we decided to tough it out, just because. Our jaws got sore just dropping to our chests as Vance screamed how Kamala's "policy"was allowing millions of criminal gun toting illeagals in over the Southern border as an answer to almost every question. Whew!
After the debate, which we watched on MSNBC with Rachel, she cut to a fellow in a contested county in Michigan, I think, who was leading a debate watch party of sorts with a room full of high schoolers who he introduced and asked questions about the debate. They picked Vance to schreads and one burly Black kid was called on to say what he thought about Harris' policy that let in all the imigrants and he laughed loudly as he said that anyone who took high school civics would know that any vice president would have no such authority and that it was up tp congress to set such policy. When they cut back to the studio, Jen Paski says to Rachel "I want to hire that kid as an intern!"
If a large group of random high schoolers see straight through it, perhaps we have a chance.
Thank You for this, Ransom. I couldn't take more than 5 minutes of Vance's sleezy lies. I will check out the after debate watch party in my home state. The young give us hope.
Well, these darned well informed kids have obviously been indoctrinated by the school system to see through BS and have critical thinking skills. It's what the conservatives are afraid of. Haha
I was educated by nuns in the 1960s and even back then they taught us critical thinking. However, they didn’t like it when I used those skills to ask them hard questions about the Catholic religion.
needless to say, two people running for Veep are not in much of a position to talk about how ultimately meaningless the job is designed to be. in Vance's case, the job is even worse because 1) TFF won't let him do anything and 2) TFF is not convincing when he talks about lasting two more years...he's intellectually incompetent already.
Yeah, I watched the debate! Even a child would not respond that having stronger windows would deter shooters! Silly!
He just lied better than Trump and said it was a peaceful transition January 20 and didn’t acknowledge January 6 at all! Finally, he wouldn’t state that Trump lost the election in 2020!
I don’t believe this debate will change any minds! What does everyone think?
I mailed my 145 letters today to encourage people to vote in Swing States and going to write 20 more! Which swing state do you believe I need to write more letters?
You "mailed 145 letters today to encourage people to vote in Swing States and going to write 20 more! Which swing state do you believe I need to write more letters?"
If you were an undecided voter at this point what does that say about your intelligence, there is a razor sharp divide between the candidates. The maggots are lost until they are re-educated by reality, some are probably lost forever like the vaccine deniers who Covid claimed. As to the undecideds I can’t fathom how if they actually listened to what both sides said in both debates, they could choose to side with the insipid orange turd, whose mouth if opened, vomited an endless stream of lies. Just Dumb Vance could put 2 sentences together, marking him the smarter of the 2 on his ticket, but just because you can speak in coherent sentences doesn’t mean that they have any basis in truth. Guns are what are killing children in our schools, windows have nothing to do with it.
JD is smooth, slick and an effective debater, BUT, as LTK recounted, he evaded, distorted and basically lied on so many topics. I thought he lured Tim into complacency at times by agreeing with him and feigning sociability, but Tim came back at the end with abortion and Jan. 6 to win the day. The after commentators were terrible, especially CNN, grading the debate like it was a college contest and largely ignoring the content. Yes, JD was adept, but Tim was authentic and on the right side of issues. Who knows if any of it matters. Meantime, Herr Drumpf was off the rails as usual.
I am in a different time zone and did not see the debate. I would not have watched it anyway, because this is not really debating, it is a dog and pony show and no longer is serving to teach the public about beliefs or platforms. We would be better served by town halls with people asking the questions.
However, Walz several times explained how things actually are, and go, a brief look into actual history and the way things have worked. Factual as well as folksy. Yeah who would you rather look at for the next 4 years? Even just that is enough to decide on. Unless of course you're not watching anything at all.
Robin, Thank you for your positive summary of the debate. I have known all along who I would rather look at and listen too. I am team Harris-Walz all the way and have already voted, as has my daughter. We vote from Germany.
Too bad MAGAs are susceptible to manipulation because of their obsession with other peoples' biology and their racism, which snake oil saleman Vance exploits
I was watching it off and on while organizing my finances to send to my tax man (yes, it's due in two weeks.) And then in the last half hour the question: "Will you accept the results of the election even when every Governor certifies that your team lost?" And he pivoted to something completely different evading the question. Then Walz came back and directly asked him (I'm paraphrasing) "Will you now say that Trump lost the 2020 election fair and square?" AND HE WOULDN'T ANSWER IT!!!!!! That was it for me. Any microscopic sliver of possible support just vaporized into thin air like a radioactive isotope at the end of the periodic table.
He's quite a slick liar. He could give Trump a few lessons.
What I would have liked Walz to say right then and there is: "Mr Vance, are you afraid of Mr Trump?? It sure sounds like you are."
With you on all points. How anyone with an iQ over 40 believes Vance did well confounds me. Nothing. Absolutely nothing of substance. Can anyone imagine this donut with a beard as president if the worst happens? Help me Rhonda…
What gets me is Trump-Vance assertion they can lower energy prices simply by more drilling (and of course of Public Lands) when US production companies do not set the prices for oil or gas and US production is sold to the world market.
US producers would much rather produce less and receive a higher price. It's the Law of Diner coffee, 10 cups at 10 cents or 2 cups at 75cents. Drilling and producing comes with a min, cost. Higher prices not more drilling produces higher profits. That's the reason 2 CEO of major oil companies recently were caught corresponding with OPEC in which they praised OPEC for keeping production levels lower while increasing the price.
(Note: There's few opportunities to demonstrate to American voters a working knowledge up to mastery of a subject. Debates provide one due to how many millions are tuned in compared to ads and campaign stops, etc. While it's okay to be liked it's even better to be liked and hear, that person knows their chit and/or I just learned something from that person or just unlearned something because that person explained it in a way that made me realize I was wrong w/o insulting me.
I'm really getting bored with the tired old line, "millions and millions of illegal immigrants pouring across our border" like they're Red Sox and Yankees fans leaving the stadium at the end of a ball game.
My understanding was that the family were middle class Ohio suburbanites. JD spent a couple summers in Kentucky—didn't grow up poor there. A family doesn't have to be impoverished to be dysfunctional. Or to produce twisted offspring.
I am an immigrant. NO IMMIGRANT that I know is able to purchase a home upon arrival. If they had that kind of money, they'd come here legally and not swimming on the Rio. In order to just begin the legal immigration process, you need about 15-30 thousand US$. If you come in as an immigrant investor, you need to invest millions in a US business. So no, those who swim accross the river do not arrive with backpacks full of money to buy a house, or even to rent a decent home. We came to the USA in the 60's, with a legal VISA; it was easier then. My dad is of Irish descent, so we all spoke pretty good English. Yet, believe me when I say: LIFE IS HARD for an immigrant. Amazing that JD made it all about immigrants, when his own in-laws are immigrants and his children should be proud grandkids of immigrants. I am not only angry this morning, I am a tad afraid.
I am so angry with the Democrats for ceding so much ground to the hate-mongering nativist GOP. They should be out there talking about how immigration has made our country great and how it benefits us all.
Linda and I looked at each other also and, well we decided to tough it out, just because. Our jaws got sore just dropping to our chests as Vance screamed how Kamala's "policy"was allowing millions of criminal gun toting illeagals in over the Southern border as an answer to almost every question. Whew!
After the debate, which we watched on MSNBC with Rachel, she cut to a fellow in a contested county in Michigan, I think, who was leading a debate watch party of sorts with a room full of high schoolers who he introduced and asked questions about the debate. They picked Vance to schreads and one burly Black kid was called on to say what he thought about Harris' policy that let in all the imigrants and he laughed loudly as he said that anyone who took high school civics would know that any vice president would have no such authority and that it was up tp congress to set such policy. When they cut back to the studio, Jen Paski says to Rachel "I want to hire that kid as an intern!"
If a large group of random high schoolers see straight through it, perhaps we have a chance.
Thank You for this, Ransom. I couldn't take more than 5 minutes of Vance's sleezy lies. I will check out the after debate watch party in my home state. The young give us hope.
Yeah, my wife too. Turned her stomach
Well, these darned well informed kids have obviously been indoctrinated by the school system to see through BS and have critical thinking skills. It's what the conservatives are afraid of. Haha
I was educated by nuns in the 1960s and even back then they taught us critical thinking. However, they didn’t like it when I used those skills to ask them hard questions about the Catholic religion.
College students at Oakland University in Rochester (outside Detroit). Just a clarification 🙂
Awesome! College students not hypnotized by right wing and social media BS!
I didn't watch it, but if he doesn't want gun-toting illegals, maybe he should get rid of the guns. Period. God, how I loathe guns.
EXACTLY!
That was an awesome interview. It gave me hope for the future.
I liked that kid too.
needless to say, two people running for Veep are not in much of a position to talk about how ultimately meaningless the job is designed to be. in Vance's case, the job is even worse because 1) TFF won't let him do anything and 2) TFF is not convincing when he talks about lasting two more years...he's intellectually incompetent already.
Yeah, I watched the debate! Even a child would not respond that having stronger windows would deter shooters! Silly!
He just lied better than Trump and said it was a peaceful transition January 20 and didn’t acknowledge January 6 at all! Finally, he wouldn’t state that Trump lost the election in 2020!
I don’t believe this debate will change any minds! What does everyone think?
I mailed my 145 letters today to encourage people to vote in Swing States and going to write 20 more! Which swing state do you believe I need to write more letters?
Heading to sleep now. 💤
You "mailed 145 letters today to encourage people to vote in Swing States and going to write 20 more! Which swing state do you believe I need to write more letters?"
We have a tippy Congressional district here in Virginia -- margin-of-error close right now. If you can motivate some people in Virginia's CD-02, it could actually make a difference. https://ballotpedia.org/Virginia%27s_2nd_Congressional_District
And the Democrat running is dyn-o-mite:
https://votevets.org/candidates/missy-cotter-smasal
https://missy4congress.com/
Thank you for all your writing!!
Ohio.
If you were an undecided voter at this point what does that say about your intelligence, there is a razor sharp divide between the candidates. The maggots are lost until they are re-educated by reality, some are probably lost forever like the vaccine deniers who Covid claimed. As to the undecideds I can’t fathom how if they actually listened to what both sides said in both debates, they could choose to side with the insipid orange turd, whose mouth if opened, vomited an endless stream of lies. Just Dumb Vance could put 2 sentences together, marking him the smarter of the 2 on his ticket, but just because you can speak in coherent sentences doesn’t mean that they have any basis in truth. Guns are what are killing children in our schools, windows have nothing to do with it.
Thank you for writing!! You are a hero!
My 200 to Michigan are to be mailed on Oct 17.
Pennsylvania.
Tracy's assessment of Vance was spot-on.
JD is smooth, slick and an effective debater, BUT, as LTK recounted, he evaded, distorted and basically lied on so many topics. I thought he lured Tim into complacency at times by agreeing with him and feigning sociability, but Tim came back at the end with abortion and Jan. 6 to win the day. The after commentators were terrible, especially CNN, grading the debate like it was a college contest and largely ignoring the content. Yes, JD was adept, but Tim was authentic and on the right side of issues. Who knows if any of it matters. Meantime, Herr Drumpf was off the rails as usual.
Not enough mention about Project 2025. Wish Tim pivoted to it a few times.
I am in a different time zone and did not see the debate. I would not have watched it anyway, because this is not really debating, it is a dog and pony show and no longer is serving to teach the public about beliefs or platforms. We would be better served by town halls with people asking the questions.
However, Walz several times explained how things actually are, and go, a brief look into actual history and the way things have worked. Factual as well as folksy. Yeah who would you rather look at for the next 4 years? Even just that is enough to decide on. Unless of course you're not watching anything at all.
Robin, Thank you for your positive summary of the debate. I have known all along who I would rather look at and listen too. I am team Harris-Walz all the way and have already voted, as has my daughter. We vote from Germany.
Yaaaay, Linda!!!
If the election was based only on likability and sincerity, it would be a landslide for Tim Walz.
Tim Walz won on substance by putting on his teacher voice with didactic discussion.
Too bad MAGAs are susceptible to manipulation because of their obsession with other peoples' biology and their racism, which snake oil saleman Vance exploits
I couldn’t agree more. What we have are not debates but an opportunity for an extended campaign ad by disingenuous charlatans aka gop.
I whole heartedly agree, Linda. It was no debate, just a forum for vance to lie without being fact checked.
You missed nothing.
And he got pissed when they did fact check him...GEEZ
YES!!!
Disagree...Vance committed suicide for all to see and enjoy...he is as delusional as Trump and went out of his way to prove it!
Well, here is a discussion of it by Sarah Longwell, Tim Miller and Jonathan Long of The Bulwark. Sarah and Tim are former political campaigners for Republicans and I don't know about Jonathan. Sarah also leads Republican Voters Against Trump, and has a blitz campaign this last month. However, their POV is more like what millennials, and more conservative people will be thinking and so that is why I appreciate what they are sharing. https://www.thebulwark.com/p/so-much-rage?utm_source=podcast-email&publication_id=87281&post_id=149718409&utm_campaign=email-play-on-substack%2Cwatch-video&r=f0qfn&triedRedirect=true&utm_medium=email
They are telling us what Swing voters might have been seeing in the part of the debate that they would have watched.
I was watching it off and on while organizing my finances to send to my tax man (yes, it's due in two weeks.) And then in the last half hour the question: "Will you accept the results of the election even when every Governor certifies that your team lost?" And he pivoted to something completely different evading the question. Then Walz came back and directly asked him (I'm paraphrasing) "Will you now say that Trump lost the 2020 election fair and square?" AND HE WOULDN'T ANSWER IT!!!!!! That was it for me. Any microscopic sliver of possible support just vaporized into thin air like a radioactive isotope at the end of the periodic table.
He's quite a slick liar. He could give Trump a few lessons.
What I would have liked Walz to say right then and there is: "Mr Vance, are you afraid of Mr Trump?? It sure sounds like you are."
Low info voters do not know it was almost all lies.
As Tracy said, he's an adept liar. I thought there could be people who were fooled thinking his demeanor was serious and his words were true?
He is one slimy creep and professional liar. And from Andy Borowitz and the cats:
https://open.substack.com/pub/borowitzreport/p/walz-demolished-vance-according-to?r=3jvi8&utm_medium=ios
Love This! Thanks, Karen! Shared.
Priceless!!!
I’m with Tracey for the summation.
With you on all points. How anyone with an iQ over 40 believes Vance did well confounds me. Nothing. Absolutely nothing of substance. Can anyone imagine this donut with a beard as president if the worst happens? Help me Rhonda…
Agree,
What gets me is Trump-Vance assertion they can lower energy prices simply by more drilling (and of course of Public Lands) when US production companies do not set the prices for oil or gas and US production is sold to the world market.
US producers would much rather produce less and receive a higher price. It's the Law of Diner coffee, 10 cups at 10 cents or 2 cups at 75cents. Drilling and producing comes with a min, cost. Higher prices not more drilling produces higher profits. That's the reason 2 CEO of major oil companies recently were caught corresponding with OPEC in which they praised OPEC for keeping production levels lower while increasing the price.
Yup.
Yeah, but who cares about a pesky thing like economics?
Well-played, Well-played, indeed.
(Note: There's few opportunities to demonstrate to American voters a working knowledge up to mastery of a subject. Debates provide one due to how many millions are tuned in compared to ads and campaign stops, etc. While it's okay to be liked it's even better to be liked and hear, that person knows their chit and/or I just learned something from that person or just unlearned something because that person explained it in a way that made me realize I was wrong w/o insulting me.
I'm really getting bored with the tired old line, "millions and millions of illegal immigrants pouring across our border" like they're Red Sox and Yankees fans leaving the stadium at the end of a ball game.
Vance, although growing up poor got himself a good education, but you can't turn a sow's ear into a silk purse.
Rather than the poverty, I suspect it was his mother's drug addiction that created this monster.
My understanding was that the family were middle class Ohio suburbanites. JD spent a couple summers in Kentucky—didn't grow up poor there. A family doesn't have to be impoverished to be dysfunctional. Or to produce twisted offspring.
You and Tracy were brilliant, per usual. Way to call that sleazeball out. Ugh.
You wrote: "My wife Tracy turned to me about halfway through the debate and sighed, 'Vance is a such a sleazy, oily, adept liar.' "
Marry her again, Lucian. Don't let her get away!
Thank you for suffering on our behalf--and sharing the key points
I am an immigrant. NO IMMIGRANT that I know is able to purchase a home upon arrival. If they had that kind of money, they'd come here legally and not swimming on the Rio. In order to just begin the legal immigration process, you need about 15-30 thousand US$. If you come in as an immigrant investor, you need to invest millions in a US business. So no, those who swim accross the river do not arrive with backpacks full of money to buy a house, or even to rent a decent home. We came to the USA in the 60's, with a legal VISA; it was easier then. My dad is of Irish descent, so we all spoke pretty good English. Yet, believe me when I say: LIFE IS HARD for an immigrant. Amazing that JD made it all about immigrants, when his own in-laws are immigrants and his children should be proud grandkids of immigrants. I am not only angry this morning, I am a tad afraid.
I am so angry with the Democrats for ceding so much ground to the hate-mongering nativist GOP. They should be out there talking about how immigration has made our country great and how it benefits us all.
His statement about illegal immigrants buying up real estate was just ridiculous. Do people actually believe this stuff?
sadly, many people do!
You know the truth of it. The GQP are just trying to “other” immigrants so their racist, misogynistic base follows along.
just like all dictators