I’m about to turn sixty-six. Many of us will probably not live long enough to see the damage this man has inflicted on the country be undone--if in fact it can ever be undone. No punishment will be severe enough to fit the crime.
Trump has had a year and a half to either destroy or secure documents in a location that would be difficult for the FBI to find. Is his hubris so outrageous that he would keep those documents in a safe in his home? One can only hope.
We know how lazy he is, and how sloppy, and how he’s gotten away with cheating his whole life. So I think, yes, there is a possibility that he failed to imagine that the incriminating documents ought to be destroyed. (Roy Cohn would be embarrassed.) I also think his line of attack would be much more vicious if he knew for certain that he’d destroyed the evidence. He’d be crowing loudly, not just complaining.
I think you are correct about the hubris, but it did occur to me even before I read this, that whatever he refused to turn over needed to be readily available to him. If it is indeed a form of "currency" or "blackmail," and Mar a Lago is a known den of thieves and a place where spies congregate, what better (and safer - to his way of thinking) place to keep them than right in his own safe.
He has treated many government employees like slave labor, beneath his notice. What autocrat listens to the help? Yes, yes, I know, the smart ones do, but this guy is not smart.
I’m thinking that NARA sent him notice that they were coming to box up all the records, prior to delivering them to the Archives. Since he’s a lazy slob, he says, “Yeah, yeah, sure,” because neither he nor his family intend to lift a hand doing real work. Since he has no idea, or even curiosity, about how records management works, he wouldn’t stop to think that packing up also means inventorying. He may have gotten the boxes, but not the record of what was in them, because — ta dah!!! — what was in them doesn’t belong to him. It never did. Who do you think taped up all those papers he tore up and threw in the trash?
NARA does have the inventory. They can determine what’s there, and what isn’t.
If, as you have written, the materials are so damaging and so important that the FBI, and the DOJ have gone to the extent they did (although I do wonder about the safe, because someone had a combination, I'm pretty sure they would not have 'broken into it' had they been that careful which is their hallmark) we are about to hear the most important words we will have the pleasure to hear about Trump:
Charged with espionage in the furtherance of monetary gain.
Why do I think this is the actual charge? Because above all else, Donald Trump is a endlessly greedy man, who is deeply in debt to several banks to the tune of 200 million dollars and whose debts for those amounts are coming due about the time of the Presidential election, in 2024.
His greed and debt are undeniable, and I think he was greedy enough to find something (which we don't even know what) to sell to another nation (I'm thinking Russia) which holds something over him.
If he got that greedy-and lord knows he can-he will have made the classic mistake of thinking nobody would care enough to stop him.
Except the National Archives, which Stephen Colbert was riffing on as "He should never have crossed the librarians-they know where everything is, and they hide in places nobody else knows about."
The librarians will have checked him out. Thank goodness he doesn't read because the FBI and the DOJ are about to read him the riot act.
Yes. And, yes! That the NARA might be the ones who actually help bring him to his richly deserved end fills this old librarian’s heart with a warm and rosy glow. 🥰
Remember: Jared Kushner spent a lot of time retrieving top secret materials, and he was not authorized nor cleared to read any of it. Rachel Maddow interviewed Wash Post reporter who said these documents were so classified, you couldn’t release an inventory because it was classified —no one is supposed to know those documents even exist. https://youtu.be/EajmUKVzLLQ
tRump & minions have done extensive damage to our national security—the GOP is a crime syndicate, and see how they rally behind a traitor.
I hope the documents have something to do with his blackmailing certain Republican legislators which might shed light on Kevin McCarthy and others switch from insurrection critics to Trump supporters after McCarthy’s post 1/6 visit to Mar A Lago.
I'd almost like to believe that they were being blackmailed, instead of just that they're all mediocre, spineless, power-hungry creeps. (I started to call them "weasels" but realized that was insulting to weasels.)
The top secret papers in the remaining boxes and safe were too voluminous for him to tear up and flush down the toilet. First of all, he’s way too lazy for that level of work and second of all his poor plumbing at Mar-a-LARDO is already on it’s last legs having to deal with him everyday.
So clear, Lucian! Thanks for laying out the legal process. Really brought home its intense seriousness. I still wonder how anyone knows what was missing. How is that double check done? Then, like one of your readers below, I wonder why the documents would be in DJT’s home. Here’s my suspicion: if DJT knows his “foreign” loan is coming due and he won’t or might not be able to pay it, he would trade a National secret for loan forgiveness. That’s the kind of gangster I think he is; but ultimately I lack the imagination to project what he’s truly capable of doing. ❤️🤍💙
Excerpt: "How do the archivists actually know what’s missing? Isn’t that hard to figure out?
The archivists probably have a really keen idea of what is and what isn’t missing, based upon things that they’ve gotten out of other offices, like the vice president’s office and things that got deposited from the secretary of state, for example. There are a lot of papers that are referenced and cross-referenced, multiple copies or multiple things going in and out of offices."
Treason and espionage aren't the same. Treason as defined by the Constitution is hard to prove. Espionage not so much. It's worth noting that the Rosenbergs weren't tried for treason but were instead tried, convicted and executed under the Espionage Act.
did they SELL the secrets or just get them to the Russians for free? I used to know this, but don't remember. they were true believers, after all. and, unless I'm badly mistaken, a Treason charge would've been very difficult, since the secrets were turned over to our ALLIES, all the cold war madness notwithstanding. and it WAS madness, used to justify some of the worst shit the government has ever done.
Does anyone think the former president wouldn't hesitate to sell any state secrets he has as long as he makes a few bucks off it? How far we have fallen, and how fast
Do we know that they actually “broke into” his safe? Maybe I’ve seen too many movies, but I can’t believe the FBI isn’t capable of opening a safe without blowing it up or whatever. And I’d think the safe that Trump would have at MAL isn’t the world’s most secure.
Maybe contracts/receipts/agreements to sell pardons for money? Or worse, some document Putin has offered big money for or asked for in exchange for not releasing certain information? Or maybe just back-dated pardons for himself, his family and his gang :)
On MSNBC Michael Cohen made mention of selling pardons for money. I don't think anyone picked up on his comment but when I read your observation above, it triggered a memory of that remark.
I’m about to turn sixty-six. Many of us will probably not live long enough to see the damage this man has inflicted on the country be undone--if in fact it can ever be undone. No punishment will be severe enough to fit the crime.
Trump has had a year and a half to either destroy or secure documents in a location that would be difficult for the FBI to find. Is his hubris so outrageous that he would keep those documents in a safe in his home? One can only hope.
We know how lazy he is, and how sloppy, and how he’s gotten away with cheating his whole life. So I think, yes, there is a possibility that he failed to imagine that the incriminating documents ought to be destroyed. (Roy Cohn would be embarrassed.) I also think his line of attack would be much more vicious if he knew for certain that he’d destroyed the evidence. He’d be crowing loudly, not just complaining.
Probably right. Hard to get into the head of a sociopath.
I think you are correct about the hubris, but it did occur to me even before I read this, that whatever he refused to turn over needed to be readily available to him. If it is indeed a form of "currency" or "blackmail," and Mar a Lago is a known den of thieves and a place where spies congregate, what better (and safer - to his way of thinking) place to keep them than right in his own safe.
Here’s a brain itch:
He has treated many government employees like slave labor, beneath his notice. What autocrat listens to the help? Yes, yes, I know, the smart ones do, but this guy is not smart.
I’m thinking that NARA sent him notice that they were coming to box up all the records, prior to delivering them to the Archives. Since he’s a lazy slob, he says, “Yeah, yeah, sure,” because neither he nor his family intend to lift a hand doing real work. Since he has no idea, or even curiosity, about how records management works, he wouldn’t stop to think that packing up also means inventorying. He may have gotten the boxes, but not the record of what was in them, because — ta dah!!! — what was in them doesn’t belong to him. It never did. Who do you think taped up all those papers he tore up and threw in the trash?
NARA does have the inventory. They can determine what’s there, and what isn’t.
Hello, FBI.
Is this itching anyone else’s brain?
Plausible!
If, as you have written, the materials are so damaging and so important that the FBI, and the DOJ have gone to the extent they did (although I do wonder about the safe, because someone had a combination, I'm pretty sure they would not have 'broken into it' had they been that careful which is their hallmark) we are about to hear the most important words we will have the pleasure to hear about Trump:
Charged with espionage in the furtherance of monetary gain.
Why do I think this is the actual charge? Because above all else, Donald Trump is a endlessly greedy man, who is deeply in debt to several banks to the tune of 200 million dollars and whose debts for those amounts are coming due about the time of the Presidential election, in 2024.
His greed and debt are undeniable, and I think he was greedy enough to find something (which we don't even know what) to sell to another nation (I'm thinking Russia) which holds something over him.
If he got that greedy-and lord knows he can-he will have made the classic mistake of thinking nobody would care enough to stop him.
Except the National Archives, which Stephen Colbert was riffing on as "He should never have crossed the librarians-they know where everything is, and they hide in places nobody else knows about."
The librarians will have checked him out. Thank goodness he doesn't read because the FBI and the DOJ are about to read him the riot act.
And there's nobody that's gonna save him.
Yes. And, yes! That the NARA might be the ones who actually help bring him to his richly deserved end fills this old librarian’s heart with a warm and rosy glow. 🥰
My head stopped hurting. Now I’m rubbing my hands together in glee! Thank you so much for clarification and a glimmer of hope!
Remember: Jared Kushner spent a lot of time retrieving top secret materials, and he was not authorized nor cleared to read any of it. Rachel Maddow interviewed Wash Post reporter who said these documents were so classified, you couldn’t release an inventory because it was classified —no one is supposed to know those documents even exist. https://youtu.be/EajmUKVzLLQ
tRump & minions have done extensive damage to our national security—the GOP is a crime syndicate, and see how they rally behind a traitor.
I hope the documents have something to do with his blackmailing certain Republican legislators which might shed light on Kevin McCarthy and others switch from insurrection critics to Trump supporters after McCarthy’s post 1/6 visit to Mar A Lago.
I'd almost like to believe that they were being blackmailed, instead of just that they're all mediocre, spineless, power-hungry creeps. (I started to call them "weasels" but realized that was insulting to weasels.)
The top secret papers in the remaining boxes and safe were too voluminous for him to tear up and flush down the toilet. First of all, he’s way too lazy for that level of work and second of all his poor plumbing at Mar-a-LARDO is already on it’s last legs having to deal with him everyday.
So clear, Lucian! Thanks for laying out the legal process. Really brought home its intense seriousness. I still wonder how anyone knows what was missing. How is that double check done? Then, like one of your readers below, I wonder why the documents would be in DJT’s home. Here’s my suspicion: if DJT knows his “foreign” loan is coming due and he won’t or might not be able to pay it, he would trade a National secret for loan forgiveness. That’s the kind of gangster I think he is; but ultimately I lack the imagination to project what he’s truly capable of doing. ❤️🤍💙
Excerpt: "How do the archivists actually know what’s missing? Isn’t that hard to figure out?
The archivists probably have a really keen idea of what is and what isn’t missing, based upon things that they’ve gotten out of other offices, like the vice president’s office and things that got deposited from the secretary of state, for example. There are a lot of papers that are referenced and cross-referenced, multiple copies or multiple things going in and out of offices."
https://theconversation.com/how-the-fbi-knew-what-to-search-for-at-mar-a-lago-and-why-the-presidential-records-act-is-an-essential-tool-for-the-national-archives-and-future-historians-188483
What a masterful explanation of the law and procedures and sizing up of what may be coming! Thank you, Lucian.
A president doing espionage. Wouldn't that be treason? And we know the penalty for treason.
A job at Fox?
Ha!
Treason and espionage aren't the same. Treason as defined by the Constitution is hard to prove. Espionage not so much. It's worth noting that the Rosenbergs weren't tried for treason but were instead tried, convicted and executed under the Espionage Act.
OK, I'm not a lawyer but selling state secrets seems like a treasonous act to me. Many people would be satisfied if he got the Rosenberg treatment
The Rosenbergs were convicted under the Espionage Act for selling state secrets. Specifically how to build a nuclear weapon.
did they SELL the secrets or just get them to the Russians for free? I used to know this, but don't remember. they were true believers, after all. and, unless I'm badly mistaken, a Treason charge would've been very difficult, since the secrets were turned over to our ALLIES, all the cold war madness notwithstanding. and it WAS madness, used to justify some of the worst shit the government has ever done.
Does anyone think the former president wouldn't hesitate to sell any state secrets he has as long as he makes a few bucks off it? How far we have fallen, and how fast
One of the reasons Trump was "hired" to run for POTUS is that he is transactional in all dealings. No empathy for others, no personal integrity.
Do we know that they actually “broke into” his safe? Maybe I’ve seen too many movies, but I can’t believe the FBI isn’t capable of opening a safe without blowing it up or whatever. And I’d think the safe that Trump would have at MAL isn’t the world’s most secure.
We only have Trump’s assertion that the safe was broken into, and anyone with two brains to rub together knows what that’s worth.
According to very reliable Twitter memes, the FBI didn’t have to crack the safe because the combination was 1-2-3-4.
That’s the same combination on my luggage!
😂😂
And the password on his devices was password, I presume if I don’t make a pre out of myself.
You are correct‼️🎉
So no, you have not made a pre out of yourself.
According to news reports the FBI had safe cracking equipment with them as well as an experienced safe cracker to do the work.
Of course they did! Do you actually think they wouldn't have had one in tow? They're slow, but they ain't stupid!
I was answering the question at the beginning this thread. My answer addresses your leading question.
" It’s possible the DOJ may be investigating Trump not only for violating the Presidential Records Act, but for violating the Espionage Act. "
It's worth noting that the Rosenbergs weren't tried for treason but were instead tried, convicted and executed under the Espionage Act.
Maybe contracts/receipts/agreements to sell pardons for money? Or worse, some document Putin has offered big money for or asked for in exchange for not releasing certain information? Or maybe just back-dated pardons for himself, his family and his gang :)
On MSNBC Michael Cohen made mention of selling pardons for money. I don't think anyone picked up on his comment but when I read your observation above, it triggered a memory of that remark.
Looks like it might boil down to “Follow the money”.
As usual.
Always does, right?
Thanks for this fabulous summary.