The Wall Street Journal published a few moments ago a story indicating that their reporters have seen the inventory of documents taken from Mar a Lago on Monday by the FBI.
I remembered when members of Congress were meeting in a SCIF in the Capitol and Republican performance artists were leading a charge on it. I believe some entered with cell phones. I don’t remember what the whole charade was about because good God there’s just so much buffoonery to try to keep track of these days.
That’s the only time I’d heard of one. Thanks for the additional info Lucian.
My recollection is that it was not a SCIF but a hearing in a hearing room into which only authorized persons were allowed. There was news video of the "invasion" which would not have been possible if it were in a SCIF which has multiple layers of security (if I recall correctly) including humans, perhaps Secret Service personnel. No one not authorized to enter a SCIF would have been allowed to enter. Perhaps someone else has a more clear recollection?
My recollection is very like Kevin's: I believe it was a SCIF because before then I didn't know what a SCIF was, and it got explained several times in reference to that incident. I remember a descending staircase on the right, with the Republican congressmen standing on the steps and at the bottom. On the left there was just a glimpse of the exterior of the SCIF, which seemed to be a sort of room within the area at the bottom of the stairs.
I don't get the impression that anyone is necessarily standing guard at a SCIF -- especially one in a place like Congress, where at least in theory it should be respected. SCIFs can be temporary. According to this Wikipedia article, individuals without clearance can be allowed into them but they must be closely supervised by someone with clearance. The article also says that there was a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago during the 45 administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information_facility
Here in the heartland ( upper midwest) I'm wondering what could possibly keep this country united in these darkest of dark days. Lucian(sic) is what keeps me motivated.
For 40+ years U.S. law enforcement and elite media have cowered, then backed down when confronted by a bullying Trump-- even if they had direct empirical evidence of his criminal behavior.
Not confident they’ll change that habit. The urge to be "bipartisan" and achieve "consensus" will almost certainly drive them to seek an "accommodation" with Republicans and Trump's legal team. And once the slap-on-the-wrist agreement has been accomplished, Trump will forget all about it and will go back to doing as much crime as is humanly possible. I hope I'm wrong but like Lucian, I've been watching Trump since before 1990, and there's been zero adjustment in his behavior over the years. Maybe the National Security establishment plays by different rules?
Thanks for picking up on this. Convicted of a misdemeanor? Basically, a slap on the wrist. Seems pretty mild. I guess I will be watching my email all day now. Keep trucking.
I had read somewhere, maybe with you, that there's a type of military information that the president cannot declassify. But in television coverage, there's no suggestion that there's any material he had that could not have declassified. Can you enlighten me whether there is a category that he would not be able to argue he had declassified?
From the article: The Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954 produced an even stranger category of classified knowledge. Anything related to the production or use of nuclear weapons and nuclear power is inherently classified, and Trump could utter whatever words he pleased yet still be in possession of classified material. Where are our nuclear warheads? What tricks have we developed to make sure they work? This information is “born secret” no matter who produces it.
Reading The Atlantic article, I had to laugh at this line: "By some measures there might be more information that is classified by the U.S. government than is unclassified, in any library, anywhere." In 1967, I worked as a librarian at the U.S. Naval Academy. At some point, a gigantic safe was installed in the back room of the Brigade Library. I was investigated and given Top Secret clearance to handle the materials therein (I was the only person authorized with the safe's combination) and bring them out on request by a midshipman - loose leaf binders with instructions for midshipmen regarding the YPs (Yard Patrol boats) on which they were being trained. I was told that the YPs in use at the Academy were WWII vintage. The updates were always sent way late. Later, I learned that the most up-to-date binders were available at the Library of Congress for anyone to access.
More recently, perhaps yesterday(?), it was made clear by someone on either CNN or MSNBC that not only are there classified documents which cannot be declassified, by the president or anyone else, but that anything that the president can declassify must go through a process which includes stamped statements on the document(s) themselves that they have been properly and fully declassified. It's not like an Executive Order which only requires the president's signature.
It remains to be seen if *any* of the material recovered from Mar-a-Lago has the necessary annotations and chain of records that document that something has been declassified?
Then there's the warrant and inventory with unredacted names of FBI agents which T. released to Breitbart. Classic DJT vindictiveness.
Can’t believe how quickly you can absorb and summarize this stuff. Thank you!
I remembered when members of Congress were meeting in a SCIF in the Capitol and Republican performance artists were leading a charge on it. I believe some entered with cell phones. I don’t remember what the whole charade was about because good God there’s just so much buffoonery to try to keep track of these days.
That’s the only time I’d heard of one. Thanks for the additional info Lucian.
I got curious and Googled "Republicans invade SCIF." ;-) Adam Schiff and Dem members of the House Intelligence Committee were taking a deposition in one when Republicans, led by Matt Gaetz (are we surprised?), tried to crash the party. October 23, 2019. The photo in this Vox story confirms my very hazy memory that the descending staircase was circular. https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/10/23/20929080/house-republicans-sergeant-arms-scif-impeachment-intelligence-eoyang
Thank you for correcting my incomplete memory.
Thank you
My recollection is that it was not a SCIF but a hearing in a hearing room into which only authorized persons were allowed. There was news video of the "invasion" which would not have been possible if it were in a SCIF which has multiple layers of security (if I recall correctly) including humans, perhaps Secret Service personnel. No one not authorized to enter a SCIF would have been allowed to enter. Perhaps someone else has a more clear recollection?
My recollection is very like Kevin's: I believe it was a SCIF because before then I didn't know what a SCIF was, and it got explained several times in reference to that incident. I remember a descending staircase on the right, with the Republican congressmen standing on the steps and at the bottom. On the left there was just a glimpse of the exterior of the SCIF, which seemed to be a sort of room within the area at the bottom of the stairs.
I don't get the impression that anyone is necessarily standing guard at a SCIF -- especially one in a place like Congress, where at least in theory it should be respected. SCIFs can be temporary. According to this Wikipedia article, individuals without clearance can be allowed into them but they must be closely supervised by someone with clearance. The article also says that there was a SCIF at Mar-a-Lago during the 45 administration. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sensitive_compartmented_information_facility
Yes. See correction of my own memory above that you posted. Thank you.
That's exactly where my mind went! The visuals in my memory are very clear.
Here in the heartland ( upper midwest) I'm wondering what could possibly keep this country united in these darkest of dark days. Lucian(sic) is what keeps me motivated.
Thank you sir.
For 40+ years U.S. law enforcement and elite media have cowered, then backed down when confronted by a bullying Trump-- even if they had direct empirical evidence of his criminal behavior.
Not confident they’ll change that habit. The urge to be "bipartisan" and achieve "consensus" will almost certainly drive them to seek an "accommodation" with Republicans and Trump's legal team. And once the slap-on-the-wrist agreement has been accomplished, Trump will forget all about it and will go back to doing as much crime as is humanly possible. I hope I'm wrong but like Lucian, I've been watching Trump since before 1990, and there's been zero adjustment in his behavior over the years. Maybe the National Security establishment plays by different rules?
And now the gop is holding a press conference to poo-poo the disclosure.
Not worthy of the air they breath.
Oh, it’s already interesting! And it gets interestinger and interestinger!
Popcorn’s ready for the next episode! Am on the edge of my chair!
Thanks for picking up on this. Convicted of a misdemeanor? Basically, a slap on the wrist. Seems pretty mild. I guess I will be watching my email all day now. Keep trucking.
Thank you for your work in keeping us informed. You are one of the best!
And even if it were classified, it's still government property and subject to certain statutes that don't depend on classification.
Thanks. Neal Katyal is now being informed and clear on MSNBC. Earlier coverage has been weak.
Let’s see…all those files pulled by Jared Kushner…so they have HIS NAME attached. Good reason for him to rat out Daddy Dearest…
I had read somewhere, maybe with you, that there's a type of military information that the president cannot declassify. But in television coverage, there's no suggestion that there's any material he had that could not have declassified. Can you enlighten me whether there is a category that he would not be able to argue he had declassified?
From the article: The Atomic Energy Acts of 1946 and 1954 produced an even stranger category of classified knowledge. Anything related to the production or use of nuclear weapons and nuclear power is inherently classified, and Trump could utter whatever words he pleased yet still be in possession of classified material. Where are our nuclear warheads? What tricks have we developed to make sure they work? This information is “born secret” no matter who produces it.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/08/trump-fbi-raid-classified-nuclear-documents/671119/
Reading The Atlantic article, I had to laugh at this line: "By some measures there might be more information that is classified by the U.S. government than is unclassified, in any library, anywhere." In 1967, I worked as a librarian at the U.S. Naval Academy. At some point, a gigantic safe was installed in the back room of the Brigade Library. I was investigated and given Top Secret clearance to handle the materials therein (I was the only person authorized with the safe's combination) and bring them out on request by a midshipman - loose leaf binders with instructions for midshipmen regarding the YPs (Yard Patrol boats) on which they were being trained. I was told that the YPs in use at the Academy were WWII vintage. The updates were always sent way late. Later, I learned that the most up-to-date binders were available at the Library of Congress for anyone to access.
More recently, perhaps yesterday(?), it was made clear by someone on either CNN or MSNBC that not only are there classified documents which cannot be declassified, by the president or anyone else, but that anything that the president can declassify must go through a process which includes stamped statements on the document(s) themselves that they have been properly and fully declassified. It's not like an Executive Order which only requires the president's signature.
It remains to be seen if *any* of the material recovered from Mar-a-Lago has the necessary annotations and chain of records that document that something has been declassified?
Then there's the warrant and inventory with unredacted names of FBI agents which T. released to Breitbart. Classic DJT vindictiveness.
In capital, bold, and underlined fashion.