It’s been a busy July for Russian President Vladimir Putin. Last Friday, Putin gave an interview to a Russian newspaper admitting that he had a meeting at the Kremlin early in July with Prigozhin and 35 of his top Wagner Group commanders and, in the words of The Guardian, “sought to negotiate terms for the mercenary group’s continued participation in Russia’s war in Ukraine.” So, the president of Russia is sitting down somewhere in the Kremlin and attempting to negotiate terms with Yevgeny Prigozhin, who led an uprising against him, and the senior Wagner officers who took part in the uprising, to go back to work for him as part of the Russian military, under the authority and command of the Russian defense chief Prigozhin accused of killing his men. Sounds like a power move and a half, doesn’t it?
LMRAO. Putin goes shirtless in pics to avoid the temptation to insert his hand into his "blouse" aka Napoleon Complex. Male masculinity is a thing in Mother Russia and was well-mocked by the Pussy Riot.
Didn't surprise me when American conservatives and right wingers went after the wimmin for demonstrating true courage. What's funnier is the cons/right wingers think and believe people don't remember and don't know to this day the Ru Orthodox Church is a facade and a tool of the state.
Those small but doughty Highland garrons were tough! I'd gladly ride one, and feel privileged. I doubt Putin would -- not big enough steed for his ego.
Shirtless Trump riding a shirtless Bannon or the other way around? (No way Trump could ever mount anything w/4legs and stay on more than 30sec. Yes, you can draw inferences from his other escapades)
He is 5' 7" and yes, the key is finding a really small horse so he looks like a stud on it. Kind of like when I wear a t-shirt that tight up top and baggy on the bottom :)
That does make sense - except for people like me, who found both horse and rider small. One poster, however, identified the horse's breed, and said it was tough. However ... I'd bet anything that the horse's toughness did not factor in.
I admit I loved all the pictures. As for “Putin’s 191,000 square foot mansion in Crimea at a cost of some $2 billion”, that is not a mansion, it is a very large resort hotel. And perhaps a prison, too ... along with a mall. And maybe a hospital. Another nice touch was the reproduction of the same room in God knows how many places so his whereabouts could not be pinpointed. Them Ruski leaders could certainly teach the mob a thing or two.
Sidebar: Here's one point I want to make that has been overlooked, far as I can tell, in all this war reporting. Serious historians (post facto) try to examine and evaluate ALL sides involved, all official and unofficial sources, to gain a better and fuller picture of the facts. These days, anyone writing about the battles of WWII, for example, will take advantage of German or Japanese archives and not just rely on Allied accounts. Hell, as long ago as the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides, an Athenian general, made use of Spartan sources when writing his history. But this approach is missing from the way the MSM reports on the war in Ukraine. Has anyone else noticed how all the reporting comes via Ukraine, Western reporters escorted by Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's government calling the shots and I expect exerting a level of control over what is allowed to be shown, who is allowed to go where? It's extremely one-sided. I'm not suggesting we should be watching the Pravda version of events (I don't think Pravda exists anymore, but you get the drift) , and I suppose the official Moscow viewpoint is out there on the web someplace for those who want the Russian propaganda angle.
All I want to say is that we might take note that what we are seeing nightly on US network broadcast news is what the US government and Ukrainian government wants us to see. Be aware. Everyone involved has their own agenda.
My late wife always had to remind me that idiom was coined by a euphemistic author and how he the word euphemism came about due to his style of writing.
Q: "Has anyone else noticed how all the reporting comes via Ukraine, Western reporters escorted by Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's government calling the shots and I expect exerting a level of control over what is allowed to be shown, who is allowed to go where? It's extremely one-sided.:
A: Extremely one-sided, indeed. Tried in another thread to explain how western media loves to frame anything they can as literature does (antagonist, protagonist, black hat, white hat, good, evil, , hero, villain) rather than adhere to the rules of journalism. Is how myths and legends take hold. Few journos begin and end with this is based solely on what Uk officials have told us or allowed us to see.
Back in the US most cable hosts and guests are shameless pom-pom waving cheerleaders for President Zelensky including overlooking his constant stream of spit at NATO and the Eu for not doing what he wants when he wants it. Wants are nice. Needs in war are very different. Not sure how his Mum reacts when her son spits at the 2orgs plus 2scores of partners/friends that have forked over >$250 billion in humanitarian, economic, and mil aid. Need more than a olive green t-shirt in return.
Calling NATO terms and rules absurd is not the path to persuading or convincing all 32 members to bow to him. If he wants to rewrite the NATO Ts&Cs to accommodate Uk, bon chance with that. Same with entry into the Eu.
Seems many have forgotten the Trump-Zelensky presser at the UN where Zelensky folded when asked about the perfect call (is memorialized on YOUTUBE). Point being is easy to talk big when the other party isn't present. And if you fold to a man as weak as Trump all the good press in the world ain't going to make you any larger in life than you really are.
He needs to find Generals that understand offense. He has enuff defensive minded GOs. Western firepower doesn't win wars. Managing and applying it correctly does. Still haven't heard any explanation as to how Uk let so many months of the prime fighting season pass before the initializing a well thought out counter-offensive (he had the entire long winter and good GOs order the planning of a counter-offensive the second they are invaded.) He gave the Ru months to devise a defense. All the while getting US/NATO satt and signal intel on Ru fortifying positions and creating obstacles and watching as >150k new Ru troops were added. A bold mouth directed to friends and allies is not same-same as bold action on the battlefield. And the pom-pom waving cheerleaders are mere spectators no matter how loud and often they cheer.
"In life, as in literature..." Andre Malraux, "one is often astonished by what is chosen by others."
In this instance, however; the unfolding events hardly seems improbable, given the cast of characters! What makes it difficult to follow is the extraordinary lengths people will go to once they are caught up in the machinations of unfolding events. The phrase: The tail is wagging the dog, comes to mind. But to my mind, they're all dogs. This leads to "Dog Eat Dog" syndrome; before you have it you're in melt-down. Watch "Chernobyl', the mini-series. if you want to get a taste of self-interest and what a cover-up smells like.
I think the biggest thing keeping Putin from sleeping soundly, wherever he sleeps, is Prigozhin. And that should keep our own leaders from sleeping too soundly, too. It is entirely possible that Prigozhin could instigate a putsch and oust Putin. I could even be bloodless, Putin agreeing to fly off into the night to a dacha somewhere . . . If we think Putin is bad, can you imagine A Russia headed by Prigozhin?
This problem for Putin points out the danger in using mercenaries instead of national troops. Blackwater, the mercenary group started by Erik Prince, is a similar outfit and Prince was trying hard to get Donald Trump to use them in Afghanistan instead of American military troops. Fortunately the idea was squashed in spite of Donald Trump's enthusiasm for the idea. The group hasn't gone away though, but is now known as Academi, which brands itself as a private security firm. A classmate of mine pointed out that the shareholders in Academi are primarily rich Texans, conservatives to the core, a group that raises concerns on my part. It doesn't take too much to imagine the uses a private army could be put to, if there was a disputed election in the U. S. and the rhetoric got heated.
As a corollary I listened to La Marseillaise sung by Mireille Mathieu and was struck by the thought that the French Revolution was caused by great differences in the economic well being of the citizens of France. A great motivator for leveling out the inequalities in American society. A disgruntled lower class can be a tinder keg. The Marseillaise is a ferocious song if you aren't familiar with the lyrics. I wasn't, until I saw them on the screen while Ms Mathieu was singing. Just ferocious.
Lucian, your ability to disperse the miasma of propaganda surrounding events is second to none. I look forward to your daily reports if for no other reason they save tons of the readers time. l no longer watch any TV news, and wading through the turgid prose of the NYT requires a translator. Often you’re it. In any case, it’s becoming very clear that P&P, Putin and Prigozhin, are doing a Sabre dance, whose point is not clear at all. If Prigozhin is indeed a pretender to the throne then Putin’s behavior is all the more puzzling. Somehow, Prigozhin seems to have the upper hand, which speaks volumes about hidden internal Russian turmoil. Putin’s outsized concern for his personal safety is not surprising, given Russia’s long history of convenient leadership disposals, and he no doubt knows his time is soon coming. Aside from the predictable infighting for power, which may finally end the this tragic proxy war in Ukraine between East and West, the suffering and dying in Ukraine continues with no obvious off-ramp. Russia started it, but allowing Ukraine now to become the sacrificial pawn on a much larger stage is a crime that will never be made whole.
So much speculation, so few certainties. Exactly the way Putin wants it. When you are the Don and being challenged your most important asset is the fact your enemy does not know your next move. Even if his grip on power has been loosened has it been loosened enough to motivate all those generals and oligarchs who owe their position and wealth to HIM?
The most likely possibility is he is simply consolidating his position and will rearrange the deck chairs on his Titanic before the next move. Fire a couple generals, find a new improved oligarch or two and then make his power move. He has not survived this long without a very large amount of shrewdness.
The one variable not being mentioned much in this whole power play is the condition of the Russian military after a year plus of massive losses of front line troops and equipment. The fact it has had to hunker down in dug in positions protected by static mine fields in Ukraine is a tacit admission by Putin he cannot win this war, as in go on the offensive. How long will it take at what cost to stand up an army able to retake the offensive in Ukraine? He no longer commands the old Red Army of two to three million cannon fodder troops.
When will our side begin to bombard the Russian people with messages that tell them in no uncertain terms Russia has lost this war and their leader's vain glorious dreams of Empire is dead and hiding behind barbed wire and mine fields in Ukraine and not in Mother Russia. So long as Putin still enjoys a degree of public support out of ignorance, he will continue to exert the levers of power he controls. And hang on.
Wherever putin is sleeping, I'd stay away from windows....wait, that's HIS method of ridding himself of those who oppose him. Still, you never know.
Those two Russian "leaders" disgust me. They are ruthless, power hungry, greedy little men who get others to do their killing to obtain the riches and power they steal. They are the role models of the disgusting, power hungry, greedy orange traitor here in our country who wants to be like them with a country all his own. They should all be hung out to dry like Mussolini.
And, P.S.- Don't know about prigozhin, but the other two "he-men" should wear a bra!
Same here, but I did go back to read the rest of the article, and laugh at Putin's propaganda photos of Prigozhin, Too funny. Justin Beiber wig included.
It's like a terrible, Peaky Blinders soap opera between Putin and Prigozhin.
Also, thanks for bringing out the old bare-chested Putin-on-a-horse...That picture was from way back in 2009 but it still makes me laugh every time I see it!
Just finished watching Trump try to explain how he would end the war in one day 😏. It really amounts to the same quid pro quo he tried with Zelenskyy to get him to manufacture lies about Biden. So, reading between the lines, it sounds like: make a deal with Putin or we withdraw support. Giving Putin a chunk of Ukraine is evidently his so-called "plan." He also wants to make it look like Zelenskyy didn't feel threatened the last time he tried to extort him which of course the Ukranian president had no choice but to say.
PS to the photos. Putin is not a large man, but is he riding a Shetland pony? The scale is off there.
It’s a cat in a horse suit.
LMRAO. Putin goes shirtless in pics to avoid the temptation to insert his hand into his "blouse" aka Napoleon Complex. Male masculinity is a thing in Mother Russia and was well-mocked by the Pussy Riot.
Didn't surprise me when American conservatives and right wingers went after the wimmin for demonstrating true courage. What's funnier is the cons/right wingers think and believe people don't remember and don't know to this day the Ru Orthodox Church is a facade and a tool of the state.
Those small but doughty Highland garrons were tough! I'd gladly ride one, and feel privileged. I doubt Putin would -- not big enough steed for his ego.
Party pooper.
Putin is a master of propaganda, so making himself look more than he is would seem perfectly in line with his way.
I have to wonder if this is real. It looks strange. Any number of people might have created a fake picture.
This is actually an old picture.
Been around for years...surprised Trump never duplicated...NOT!!!
Shirtless Trump riding a shirtless Bannon or the other way around? (No way Trump could ever mount anything w/4legs and stay on more than 30sec. Yes, you can draw inferences from his other escapades)
Photoshop
Ha! Now I have to go back ns look at the photos.
🤣😂 That got a guffaw! Now I know why he didn’t ride a bear.
He is 5' 7" and yes, the key is finding a really small horse so he looks like a stud on it. Kind of like when I wear a t-shirt that tight up top and baggy on the bottom :)
That’s the first thing I thought as well Margo, I’m sure he didn’t want too big a horse that would make him look small.
That does make sense - except for people like me, who found both horse and rider small. One poster, however, identified the horse's breed, and said it was tough. However ... I'd bet anything that the horse's toughness did not factor in.
I admit I loved all the pictures. As for “Putin’s 191,000 square foot mansion in Crimea at a cost of some $2 billion”, that is not a mansion, it is a very large resort hotel. And perhaps a prison, too ... along with a mall. And maybe a hospital. Another nice touch was the reproduction of the same room in God knows how many places so his whereabouts could not be pinpointed. Them Ruski leaders could certainly teach the mob a thing or two.
I missed the photos. Looking at that photo of Putin or his friend Trump , they are both repugnant.
Maybe that’s where Prighozin is. He could hide out there for months.
What a bunch of weirdness on display.
Sidebar: Here's one point I want to make that has been overlooked, far as I can tell, in all this war reporting. Serious historians (post facto) try to examine and evaluate ALL sides involved, all official and unofficial sources, to gain a better and fuller picture of the facts. These days, anyone writing about the battles of WWII, for example, will take advantage of German or Japanese archives and not just rely on Allied accounts. Hell, as long ago as the Peloponnesian War, Thucydides, an Athenian general, made use of Spartan sources when writing his history. But this approach is missing from the way the MSM reports on the war in Ukraine. Has anyone else noticed how all the reporting comes via Ukraine, Western reporters escorted by Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's government calling the shots and I expect exerting a level of control over what is allowed to be shown, who is allowed to go where? It's extremely one-sided. I'm not suggesting we should be watching the Pravda version of events (I don't think Pravda exists anymore, but you get the drift) , and I suppose the official Moscow viewpoint is out there on the web someplace for those who want the Russian propaganda angle.
All I want to say is that we might take note that what we are seeing nightly on US network broadcast news is what the US government and Ukrainian government wants us to see. Be aware. Everyone involved has their own agenda.
'All is fair in love, war - - - and politics . . . '
My late wife always had to remind me that idiom was coined by a euphemistic author and how he the word euphemism came about due to his style of writing.
Note: much respect for bringing up the subject.
Q: "Has anyone else noticed how all the reporting comes via Ukraine, Western reporters escorted by Ukrainian forces, Ukraine's government calling the shots and I expect exerting a level of control over what is allowed to be shown, who is allowed to go where? It's extremely one-sided.:
A: Extremely one-sided, indeed. Tried in another thread to explain how western media loves to frame anything they can as literature does (antagonist, protagonist, black hat, white hat, good, evil, , hero, villain) rather than adhere to the rules of journalism. Is how myths and legends take hold. Few journos begin and end with this is based solely on what Uk officials have told us or allowed us to see.
Back in the US most cable hosts and guests are shameless pom-pom waving cheerleaders for President Zelensky including overlooking his constant stream of spit at NATO and the Eu for not doing what he wants when he wants it. Wants are nice. Needs in war are very different. Not sure how his Mum reacts when her son spits at the 2orgs plus 2scores of partners/friends that have forked over >$250 billion in humanitarian, economic, and mil aid. Need more than a olive green t-shirt in return.
Calling NATO terms and rules absurd is not the path to persuading or convincing all 32 members to bow to him. If he wants to rewrite the NATO Ts&Cs to accommodate Uk, bon chance with that. Same with entry into the Eu.
Seems many have forgotten the Trump-Zelensky presser at the UN where Zelensky folded when asked about the perfect call (is memorialized on YOUTUBE). Point being is easy to talk big when the other party isn't present. And if you fold to a man as weak as Trump all the good press in the world ain't going to make you any larger in life than you really are.
He needs to find Generals that understand offense. He has enuff defensive minded GOs. Western firepower doesn't win wars. Managing and applying it correctly does. Still haven't heard any explanation as to how Uk let so many months of the prime fighting season pass before the initializing a well thought out counter-offensive (he had the entire long winter and good GOs order the planning of a counter-offensive the second they are invaded.) He gave the Ru months to devise a defense. All the while getting US/NATO satt and signal intel on Ru fortifying positions and creating obstacles and watching as >150k new Ru troops were added. A bold mouth directed to friends and allies is not same-same as bold action on the battlefield. And the pom-pom waving cheerleaders are mere spectators no matter how loud and often they cheer.
Brilliant piece. The dance is far from over between these prima donnas.
"In life, as in literature..." Andre Malraux, "one is often astonished by what is chosen by others."
In this instance, however; the unfolding events hardly seems improbable, given the cast of characters! What makes it difficult to follow is the extraordinary lengths people will go to once they are caught up in the machinations of unfolding events. The phrase: The tail is wagging the dog, comes to mind. But to my mind, they're all dogs. This leads to "Dog Eat Dog" syndrome; before you have it you're in melt-down. Watch "Chernobyl', the mini-series. if you want to get a taste of self-interest and what a cover-up smells like.
I think the biggest thing keeping Putin from sleeping soundly, wherever he sleeps, is Prigozhin. And that should keep our own leaders from sleeping too soundly, too. It is entirely possible that Prigozhin could instigate a putsch and oust Putin. I could even be bloodless, Putin agreeing to fly off into the night to a dacha somewhere . . . If we think Putin is bad, can you imagine A Russia headed by Prigozhin?
Borat and The Goth. An epic story of idiocy, betrayal and greed. Too bad the Writers’ Guild is on strike.
These two thugs make drumpf look like a pickpocket!
Or a permanent rookie, Roy Cohn pedigree or not.
This problem for Putin points out the danger in using mercenaries instead of national troops. Blackwater, the mercenary group started by Erik Prince, is a similar outfit and Prince was trying hard to get Donald Trump to use them in Afghanistan instead of American military troops. Fortunately the idea was squashed in spite of Donald Trump's enthusiasm for the idea. The group hasn't gone away though, but is now known as Academi, which brands itself as a private security firm. A classmate of mine pointed out that the shareholders in Academi are primarily rich Texans, conservatives to the core, a group that raises concerns on my part. It doesn't take too much to imagine the uses a private army could be put to, if there was a disputed election in the U. S. and the rhetoric got heated.
As a corollary I listened to La Marseillaise sung by Mireille Mathieu and was struck by the thought that the French Revolution was caused by great differences in the economic well being of the citizens of France. A great motivator for leveling out the inequalities in American society. A disgruntled lower class can be a tinder keg. The Marseillaise is a ferocious song if you aren't familiar with the lyrics. I wasn't, until I saw them on the screen while Ms Mathieu was singing. Just ferocious.
Lucian, your ability to disperse the miasma of propaganda surrounding events is second to none. I look forward to your daily reports if for no other reason they save tons of the readers time. l no longer watch any TV news, and wading through the turgid prose of the NYT requires a translator. Often you’re it. In any case, it’s becoming very clear that P&P, Putin and Prigozhin, are doing a Sabre dance, whose point is not clear at all. If Prigozhin is indeed a pretender to the throne then Putin’s behavior is all the more puzzling. Somehow, Prigozhin seems to have the upper hand, which speaks volumes about hidden internal Russian turmoil. Putin’s outsized concern for his personal safety is not surprising, given Russia’s long history of convenient leadership disposals, and he no doubt knows his time is soon coming. Aside from the predictable infighting for power, which may finally end the this tragic proxy war in Ukraine between East and West, the suffering and dying in Ukraine continues with no obvious off-ramp. Russia started it, but allowing Ukraine now to become the sacrificial pawn on a much larger stage is a crime that will never be made whole.
So much speculation, so few certainties. Exactly the way Putin wants it. When you are the Don and being challenged your most important asset is the fact your enemy does not know your next move. Even if his grip on power has been loosened has it been loosened enough to motivate all those generals and oligarchs who owe their position and wealth to HIM?
The most likely possibility is he is simply consolidating his position and will rearrange the deck chairs on his Titanic before the next move. Fire a couple generals, find a new improved oligarch or two and then make his power move. He has not survived this long without a very large amount of shrewdness.
The one variable not being mentioned much in this whole power play is the condition of the Russian military after a year plus of massive losses of front line troops and equipment. The fact it has had to hunker down in dug in positions protected by static mine fields in Ukraine is a tacit admission by Putin he cannot win this war, as in go on the offensive. How long will it take at what cost to stand up an army able to retake the offensive in Ukraine? He no longer commands the old Red Army of two to three million cannon fodder troops.
When will our side begin to bombard the Russian people with messages that tell them in no uncertain terms Russia has lost this war and their leader's vain glorious dreams of Empire is dead and hiding behind barbed wire and mine fields in Ukraine and not in Mother Russia. So long as Putin still enjoys a degree of public support out of ignorance, he will continue to exert the levers of power he controls. And hang on.
“Inglorius basterds!” Cinema reference.
Just like Afghanistan, Russians know when their children don't return home.
Thanks Lucian, your perspective is always welcome. I’m sure the two P’s are cooking up something ghastly. Hope they implode!!
Wherever putin is sleeping, I'd stay away from windows....wait, that's HIS method of ridding himself of those who oppose him. Still, you never know.
Those two Russian "leaders" disgust me. They are ruthless, power hungry, greedy little men who get others to do their killing to obtain the riches and power they steal. They are the role models of the disgusting, power hungry, greedy orange traitor here in our country who wants to be like them with a country all his own. They should all be hung out to dry like Mussolini.
And, P.S.- Don't know about prigozhin, but the other two "he-men" should wear a bra!
Or Manssiere?
Ugg, I'm going to have to wash my eyes out with soap, before I can even read your article.
Hard to unsee the opening Putin photo. Ugh!
Same here, but I did go back to read the rest of the article, and laugh at Putin's propaganda photos of Prigozhin, Too funny. Justin Beiber wig included.
It's like a terrible, Peaky Blinders soap opera between Putin and Prigozhin.
Also, thanks for bringing out the old bare-chested Putin-on-a-horse...That picture was from way back in 2009 but it still makes me laugh every time I see it!
Imagine Trump on a donkey, red tie!
Yikes!
Just finished watching Trump try to explain how he would end the war in one day 😏. It really amounts to the same quid pro quo he tried with Zelenskyy to get him to manufacture lies about Biden. So, reading between the lines, it sounds like: make a deal with Putin or we withdraw support. Giving Putin a chunk of Ukraine is evidently his so-called "plan." He also wants to make it look like Zelenskyy didn't feel threatened the last time he tried to extort him which of course the Ukranian president had no choice but to say.